| Author | Message |
Ray Darrah 
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
|  2/27/2008 12:27:17 PM 
Your statements are scary...
But should be discussed... I'm glad I did not install for that many years..
x
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 2/27/2008 7:38:19 PM
( You guys make it sound like you gob it on the seam edge. It takes very little to fill & coat the seam edge. I seal as fast as I can walk backwards. )
Any one that's ever use a glue gun knows the truth.
If your doing more than three feet at a time than your glue gun got cold an you miss some.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 2/27/2008 7:44:57 PM
are you saying that thermoplastic is not so easy and fast to do?
What do u use to seal seam edges?
thank you.
x
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 2/27/2008 7:54:31 PM
latex love it,
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 2/27/2008 7:58:26 PM
quote:
latex love it,
Thank you for answering taxman.. I feel vindicated.......... I have yet to see the thermoplastic sealed seams out in the field..
Of course, that does not mean it's not out there.
I'm hearing more about the microwave seamer and latex on seams with thermoplastic on stairs and cuts on outside corners..this kind of thing..
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 2/27/2008 8:12:53 PM
Haven't used microwave seamer. On stairs and cuts on outside corners.. this kind of thing I sew.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 2/27/2008 10:55:57 PM
The point is, how many things can you do at one time,--especially when doing one of the most vital jobs on the floor, seaming carpet together?
Can any of you tell us how many things need to be observed when seaming carpet together---and for the moment,--without sealing the carpet with anything?
In other words, tell us what can go wrong when just seaming.
I could give you a huge hint, but then I'd have to cut the carpet.
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 2/27/2008 11:13:28 PM
JIM,The glue gun is used then let dry.Then heat seam.
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Roland Thompson
Posts: 281
Since: 2/27/2008
| 2/27/2008 11:14:00 PM
If you are using the glue gun with hot glue to seale your seams it is know diffrent then if you are using latex or some other type of method you only need to fill the picks where the primary and secoundary backing join. With the glue gun you push so the tip pushs the glue into the picks so there is no build up ( trying to run your fingers to push it in the way you do latex would burn a little ) if you pull you can get build up and as Jim said it will not go together right. You also need to know what temp. of glue stick you need depending on if you are running your iron high or low, If you use a low melt glue stick and run your iron to high it will make the glue to runny and could get on the fibers and make hard spots. If you use a high melt stick and run your iron low it will not melt and bound together like it is made to do. You do seal the edge before you start seaming. With all this said you should practice before using any seam sealer.
FD
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 2/27/2008 11:19:36 PM
quote:
JIM,The glue gun is used then let dry.Then heat seam.
As the iron is hot and the carpet edge comes in contact with the iron and its heat, while the carpet and fibers pass around the neck of the iron, what can happen? I'm just pointing out a secondary feature.
I'd like someone to answer my post above.
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Roland Thompson
Posts: 281
Since: 2/27/2008
| 2/27/2008 11:54:58 PM
Well after you make sure you have cut the seam right and everything lines up and you have the edge sealed and tape under it now you start the seam as you move along the seam you need to do many of things to make sure you have a good seam 1 move the iron at the right speed ( each iron could be deffrent depending on the tenp you have it at or if you have keep the iron clean ) 2 see if the tape has melted the right amount. 3 keep the fibers from getting into the seam as you put the backing into the thermoplastic 4 make sure the backing is together with no gaps and level 5 make sure the backing is into the glue 6 move the weight onto the seamed area to help kep it flat and keep the glue up into the picks of the backing as it starts to cool.
Know we could get into weights seam tape and other things but that is for a diffrent tread.
And that is if everything lines up , if you added pattern and any issue with a side bow you even add more for the installer to worry about.
FD
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 2/28/2008 12:09:35 AM
quote:
Well after you make sure you have cut the seam right and everything lines up and you have the edge sealed and tape under it now you start the seam as you move along the seam you need to do many of things to make sure you have a good seam 1 move the iron at the right speed ( each iron could be deffrent depending on the tenp you have it at or if you have keep the iron clean ) 2 see if the tape has melted the right amount. 3 keep the fibers from getting into the seam as you put the backing into the thermoplastic 4 make sure the backing is together with no gaps and level 5 make sure the backing is into the glue 6 move the weight onto the seamed area to help kep it flat and keep the glue up into the picks of the backing as it starts to cool.
Know we could get into weights seam tape and other things but that is for a diffrent tread.
And that is if everything lines up , if you added pattern and any issue with a side bow you even add more for the installer to worry about.
FD
That's as good an explanation as I've seen and totally complete as I see it, with just one tiny detail not observed--or should I say, pointed out.
I am saving this for the meeting, but I'll give it here afterwards. It is so essential, but no one has ever spoken of it on any board. Ray offered a hint into it with one of his posts, but still no one brought up this specific reason why and I have seen many installers make this mistake, for 2 very important reasons, that m,ake installers think other than they should.
If David wants, I'll divulge it here first. I was just trying to give something to CFI first, just as with seam sealers and seam work in general and how to test with a knee kicker, every piece of carpet, before you kick or powerstretch.
No matter what, some installers will always kick, so why not help them to understand when they can and when they can't --AND MOST OF ALL, WHY. Proof is what better installers understand, even beyond money, because installers hate to be proven wrong or hacks.
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Roland Thompson
Posts: 281
Since: 2/27/2008
| 2/28/2008 8:21:29 AM
I could add, there are a few more things to do before you start to run your iron. Look at the backing to see many things that can help you know what type of tape to use, depending on the pick size you might have to use a low profile tape. How much latex and filler is on or in the backing this will help deside on iron temp. because filler will hold heat more then latex.You also can see if there is any weakness in the edge from the primary and secoundary backings.Then before you start you should prestretch both sides of the seam because seam tape normally will not stretch as much as just the carpet.
Need to get to work.
FD
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 2/28/2008 8:45:19 AM
quote:
I could add, there are a few more things to do before you start to run your iron. Look at the backing to see many things that can help you know what type of tape to use, depending on the pick size you might have to use a low profile tape. How much latex and filler is on or in the backing this will help deside on iron temp. because filler will hold heat more then latex.You also can see if there is any weakness in the edge from the primary and secoundary backings.Then before you start you should prestretch both sides of the seam because seam tape normally will not stretch as much as just the carpet.
Need to get to work.
FD
Either you've been paying close attention for several years now or you were taught these things when you first started out and you practic3ed them everyday.
No one else to date brings such, so easily, beside myself and now you, since I've been on all these boards, starting in 1998.
Very few men remember, because they don't practice these things everyday. They would have to copy and paste all these things and keep them in their trucks and before each job, review the list and then practice these things, so they became so ingrained, that whenever any subject came to bear, they could recall all this and much more with ease.
You've caught me off guard and that's not so easily done. At least I don't think it's done that easily. You can bet I'll be paying closer attention to detail, which is a good thing. Competition is what makes all men better, IF they compete. That is also part of my reasoning to get certified. I'll never be able to physically keep-up with the younger guys because of my COPD, but in skill, they're gonna have to be really sharp to best me--but I feel sure there are men out there that are absolutely great with their hands.
Only competition will tell.
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 2/29/2008 7:25:19 PM
Sorry it took so long to reply,
(With the glue gun you push so the tip pushs the glue into the picks so there is no build up)
This can be tricky because the hole in the peak- Buster is bigger than the hole in a latex bottle.
(You also need to know what temp of glue stick you need.)
Using a low melt glue stick which has fillers in them you know like candle wax. They may reheat when steam clean.
( trying to run your fingers to push it in the way you do latex would burn a little )
The glue quickly cools and sticks to your finger. You may miss spots be careful .
Some carpets hold more heat in them. Dose this have any effect on the glue in any way?
What happens when the carpet weaves in and out down your seam. Do you have the time you need to work it?
(You also need to know what temp of glue stick you need.)
Using a low melt glue stick which has fillers in them you know like candle wax. May reheat when steam cleaned.
What happens if you use a sdn. Dose the glue suck up in the seam?
Last Edited 3/1/2008
10:28:56 AM
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John Draper
Posts: 76
Since: 10/29/2007
| 3/1/2008 10:52:41 PM
Hi I'm a C.F.I. master installer from Fl.
I may do thing a little different way of doing thing. I cut ALL carpet in the rows,use peak-buster on all seams,then I use Kool glide with aseam bord
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/1/2008 11:08:51 PM
quote:
Hi I'm a C.F.I. master installer from Fl.
I may do thing a little different way of doing thing. I cut ALL carpet in the rows,use peak-buster on all seams,then I use Kool glide with aseam bord
I've asked others and they don't answer, so I'll ask you, How many things can any mechanic do at one time, successfully?
You band every other installer seem not to understand, but then it seems this industry doesn't feel it has to, nor does it want to, prove what it claims.
No problem, casrpet installers can remain stupid, because that's what they prove they want.
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 3/1/2008 11:12:52 PM
Hi I'm a C.F.I. master installer from Fl.
I may do thing a little different way of doing thing. I cut ALL carpet in the rows,use peak-buster on all seams,then I use Kool glide with aseam bord
Just the Tax Man form FL.
Never use one. If I had one i would be more than happy to try it. I would tell all about it. I love tools.
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Roland Thompson
Posts: 281
Since: 2/27/2008
| 3/1/2008 11:45:21 PM
I thought I had given an answer. Do you want to know at the exact same time or in the same movment?
If it is at the exact same time it could be 3 things if it is all in the same movment it could be up to around 7 things.1-move the iron 2- check to see if the glue has melted to the right temp. 3-kick to line up pattern or seam edge if there is a side wiggle 4- make sure backing is tight and level 5- keep pile open as your putting backing together 6- roll seam to make sure glue has gotten into the picks of the backing 7-move seam weight up onto seam 8 start all over again.
FD
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 3/2/2008 12:27:09 AM
Kool glide
What I would like to know is.
1.How do you check to see if the seam melted to the right temp.
2. How long do you wait be for you kick to line up pattern or seam edge if there is a side wiggle.
This sound like you used a normal seam iron never hard this one.
4- make sure backing is tight and level 5- keep pile open as your putting backing together
If peak buster glue is hot. Would that not push fibers down in glue?
6- roll seam to make sure glue has gotten into the picks of the backing
move seam weight up onto seam
Would this hold fibers down so they will not come back up?
I'm don't know about this tool. Need more data please.
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