| Author | Message |
Darian Brown 
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
|  3/7/2008 9:51:29 AM 
(I hope everone takes this in a good manner for I am all about learning.)
Flooring Doctor
You have some great views and I'd like to go over some of them in my next post.
We all have a learning disability. We do not know how to get along. All we do is attack each other. And all the other forums do that and that's why installers are viewed as we are its time to change. Learning is what it is all about. I for one will try.
Jim you have been road hard over the years and it time for that to stop. You do challenge me in some ways but I do miss out when you go off. I stop reading your post and that's not good. I may miss something important that you have to say.
Jim when something in a post get to you. Calm down and take deep breath. Then read it over again slowly. I do this a lot and it help me.
What I'm trying to say here is this board has a great varied of people. We all can do this.
Last Edited 3/7/2008
9:56:49 AM
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 3/7/2008 12:35:21 PM
(I can also thru taking seams apart tell if the installers has the habit { witch many do } of leaning on the handle because doing this will make the iron lean to one side more then the other melting the tape more on one side, that is why some times when you take a seam apart it comes off one side better then the other.)
Never saw this before makes a lot sense.
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David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 3/7/2008 1:50:43 PM
Great attitude, tax man. We all have something to offer when it comes to teaching. We just have to do it 'constructively'.
Thanks for complimenting Jim too. He needs to know how much we appreciate him.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 1:58:41 PM
I don't like disagreeing, but I have too on that one. If one side comes off easier than another, it might be, because possibly, the iron is cooler on one side than another. It might be, because the installer doesn't use a seam weight It might be, because the installer for whatever reason, gets one side into the glue and then works the other side in afterwards--kinda like we do a gluewown.
The installer may let his iron bottom get dirty as heck and not scrape it down, causing the old glue to burn and cake on the iron and for whatever reason, more heat gets through on one side than the other.
It would be difficult to see how the tape could come-off the iron or that an installer could put that much pressure to one side, even trying.
IF you believe that's true, try to duplicate what the other installer had to do and had to feel, while you watch the glue melt as you tilt and move the iron.
Perhaps I could be wrong. The only way to truly know, is to test for it.
By the way, the best seams will not come apart, you will have to cut them open and then heat the tape off the backing. I've had to do that maybe 20 times, since 1993---when I started doing repairwork.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 2:21:02 PM
Using the seam iron in theorem the iron should be ran on 3 to 3 ½ so that the iron will not over heat the backing. Think about this if iron is hot and you move to slow you’ll over heat the backing. You must learn your on speed.
The above will be right at times, but it can be wrong at other times. Sometimes you have to turn the heat down to 2+3/4---at the very least, when doing certain very thin carpets--you know, like the cheapest of carpets---while using cheaper seam tapes. The cheaper tapes will tear by hand easier than the best seam tapes and by the tear method, will you know the glue will melt quicker than the better or best tapes.
When you do a tear test by hand, learn to rip them all at medium speed. Cheaper ones will either tear easy and all the way through or they might string-out on a medium tear.
The better and best tapes will either not tear very good--at all--with the same tear speed and power. If you tear any tape real fast and really strong, they should all tear pretty good.
Find the speed and power on the cheap tapes, that makes them tear through and use about that same speed and power on the best of tapes. That will help you understand the best.
On better tapes, the tape will have a better layout and glue with more solids, with the scrim tighter together.
The cheapest carpets will probably be about a 5 pic action back.
No matter what, an iron will have to stay on any one area of the seam tape for enough time to melt the glue and while the iron is there, the carpet just in front of the area you are in at present will be heating-up AND when you move it to the next position, that means that area gets a lot more heat, for a lot longer period.
At least, that's how I percieve things. Just make sure wheather cheap or the best, that the glue is fully melted and the carpet gets into what little glue is left once the iron passes.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 2:25:44 PM
I would add, that while good tape must be used on 26oz commercial olefin, the installer will have to get the carpet into the glue quickly, but he must not put much weight on the seam at all, just barely enough to set the carpet into the glue or else, you'll see lumps in the carpet, where some glue builds-up behind the iron. You can just before you move the iron forward, shift it backwards and then go ahead, but still don't put very much weight on it at all.
THE BEST WAY TO WEIGHT THE SEAM, IS TO EMPTY YOUR TRAY AND WHEN YOU MOVE THE IRON, SET THE TRAY DOWN AND PUT JUST ENOUGH HAND WEIGHT DOWN ON THE TRAY, TO MAKE THE CARPET FLAT TO THE TAPE AND NO MORE.
Last Edited 3/7/2008
3:06:13 PM
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 2:55:48 PM
quote:
Keeping a fairly clean bottom on the iron, does wonders. A clean iron, does several things for you.
I started wiping my iron down right after every single seam. The iron that I showed full of the red glue is almost brand new. It was used maybe 5 times before this time. Look at the iron holder.
I use scrap carpet to wipedown the bottom of the iron after each seam, with a bigger piece of scrap under it.
Go to the --Larry the cable guy thread and look.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 3:19:38 PM
quote:
Keeping a fairly clean bottom on the iron, does wonders. A clean iron, does several things for you.
Perry, like some guys, you make statements like the one above, but you show no proof of your claim. Such as that has no merit, no proof and is detrimental in some ways.
My iron is almost brand new and I see only one difference.
I ask you, what is that one difference between a clean iron and a dirty one and since you say a clean iron does wonders and SEVERAL things, Please tell us what they are.
Thanks.
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 3/7/2008 7:51:29 PM
Last Edited 3/7/2008
8:16:51 PM
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 8:10:56 PM
quote:
I do have to turn my iron down when I doing against the grain seams and some carpets.
Jim,
Take a breath. Perry was not telling you anything or talking about you. Perry is jealous of how well this is going and you are do here. Now he want to chime in after all this time to show how will he knows about seams. like he keeps his iron clean. You know you have to use it in order to clean it. Please hold it together over there.
Your first statement is part of the problem, with all due respect. You didn't bother to say that in the post that I commented on, so in essence, you didn't feel like explaining that you do turn your iron down for somethings. You first post claimed you turned your iron to 3+1/2.
If we allow people to get away with what you did, why not let the next guy get away with more and the next more?
We need to be specific on these boards about as much as we darn well can, so that with time, men reading these boards will eventually have all the right stuff sink-in. It will then become COMMON KNOWLEDGE.
As it is now, If someone were to give a test on all that has been spoken of here, maybe 1% of the guys would pass, with a C for a grade. The rest would probably fail. Human beings don't remember things without seeing it many times over and over, while saying the words or writing them down. There might be a few that look in on these boards that have a photographic memory, but I don't think there are any installers with such.
Let's say you're right Tax Man and I'm losin it.
Before I lose it totally, please tell us all the things that come from a dirty iron. Perry says there are several. I have no beef with Perry, just like I don't have a beef with FD or you.
I simply think it's wrong to say things if they aren't true or there is no proof.
I challenge any and all the leadership when I think they are wrong. Well, I do back off a little from time to time.
I'm not being mean TM, I am just being as factual as I can.
Thanks TM.
Jim
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/7/2008 10:55:35 PM
what comes from a dirty iron?
1. Bad Smell.
2. SLows down melting the glue on the tape.
3. Pushes melted glue off the seam area to the edges forming ridges.
4. Lack of backing penetration due to movement of glue to the edge.
5.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 10:59:01 PM
quote:
what comes from a dirty iron?
1. Bad Smell.
2. SLows down melting the glue on the tape.
3. Pushes melted glue off the seam area to the edges forming ridges.
4. Lack of backing penetration due to movement of glue to the edge.
5.
Silly boy, tricks are for kids.
There is one and only one thing created by a dirty iron and that is it crusts on the iron and stops the full heat from reaching the glue. THAT'S ALL.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/8/2008 6:48:08 AM
quote:
Silly boy, tricks are for kids.
There is one and only one thing created by a dirty iron and that is it crusts on the iron and stops the full heat from reaching the glue. THAT'S ALL.
AHA !!
So I'm correct again.
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Please, don't ask me to read bad stuff twice.