| Author | Message | Selva Lee Tucker 
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
|  7/16/2008 11:21:44 PM 
CTEF had another great inspection class this week, from Sat to
today....
one of the inspectors called me afterward in awe of all he
learned,,,,
many of us years ago learn for real education, go to the industry
associations....
I have been to CTEF for installation and inspection training....all
classes great and I learned so much,
to repeat this, because today I also heard again, another school
wants to do a ceramic tile inspection class,
this "school" knows, that CTEF/TCA/the entire ceramic and
stone industry 100% full support, do not recognize any
inspection certification and only acknowledge the class by CTEF
for their members to use,
isn't it interesting how these schools want money for something
that will not be recognized or acknowledged by the industry
they want to inspect.....
now, what are you guys' opinion on any school or association
that wants guys, in these slow times, to spend money on
something that will not be acknowledged or recognized??
is it really all about the money? and nothing else?
oh well,,,,now, I am not trying to degrade or put anyone
down,,,,but, I am asking why put on such a class when the best
already exists? and, why put on something the industry will not
support? Acknowledge and Recognized?
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| David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 7/17/2008 10:28:26 AM
In all fairness Selva, think of the time it takes any business or organization to establish itself.
I would think that any business that would want to become a certification body in the flooring industry, would be emarking on a long and arduous journey- to finally be recognized and accepted as such.
You have to start somewhere, and no one can avoid starting at the beginning...
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| Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 7/17/2008 3:40:07 PM
I agree with that, but, with the NOFMA/NWFA, TCA/CTEF
courses recognized by the wood and tile industry,,,,and the
manufacturers saying they will only accept reports from them,,,,?
so, with that in mind, should not the class be put together, the
curriculum and study materials, then taken it to the industry at
their yearly meetings and submit it for approval? The tile
industry has said no to the certification of inspectors by their
own respected, approved, accepted and recognized associations
and schools, how can one on the outside do this and be
accepted?
without that approval, inspectors are just wasting their money.
Now, many of the schools, where tile is concerned, are just
sending their inspectors to the ctef class,,,,I mean, go to the best
or go to one that has no recognition or acceptance....to offer
such a class seem to entering into the "shadow land of the dark
side"....The tile industry has said no,,,,so, how will people not in
the tile industry gain acceptance and approval with a course that
will not even be able to show them how the testing is done and
by whom in a lab?
I don't have but one agenda here, inspectors getting the best
training and the best value for their money....oh well,
I would hope that at some point in time, inspectors will start to
ask the right questions of the schools and realize training and
experience are valuable tools, not just "certificates" to hang on a
wall to get work, that the experience and "real training" are the
only tools that matter, not pieces of paper.
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| Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 7/17/2008 4:41:53 PM
ok,
I see you put me into a position with your kind words that make
it hard for me to continue the discussion, but, YOU DON"T
KNOW ME! 
I was having a good chuckle as I read that,,,,you are good,,,,
but the point is, we can do exactly what you describe with
carpet, vinyl/vct/in general hardsurface,,,,but, Wood and Tile are
exerting control of the inspection training processes. Too much
wrong information and bad training has/was/is done or being
done and it is harming all levels, from the consumer, the
retailer, the distributor to the manufacturer. Who is the logical
entity to exert control? where it all starts, with the
manufacturers through respected trade associations who
specialize in training at all levels for the industry. If the industry
is saying no to their own schools sponsored / supported by
them, will an outside school, without the necessary resources,be
able to do this? Remember, they will not have the logistics and
support in materials and knowledge of the trade associations
and schools.
I am not saying they can't try or have such a class,,,,what I am
saying is, while they "experiment" and work toward accreditation
if they do not have an approved curriculum by the industry, why
should inspectors be expected to pay their expenses? It is not
the job of the inspector to get the course accredited or pay the
cost of the accreditation while the owners make money,,,,and
what if it is never accepted by the industry, will the schools put
the money in an account where they can only get it upon
accreditation? We know the answer to that if we bring it up to
them....so, again, what will such a school offer? Why offer what
they know will not be accepted without the curriculum being
approved asking inspectors to pay for it.
Get the program approved by the tile industry, then, offer the
course.
this has been a fun but serious discussion,,,,and I now know the
measure of you, Mr. DAVID, you bear close watching! (I'm
laughing)
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| David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 7/17/2008 5:53:26 PM
Sorry Selva,
I was editing my post and inadvertently deleted it. Glad you got to read and respond to it...
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| Stephen Perrera
Posts: 823
Since: 5/27/2008
| 7/17/2008 8:44:12 PM
I'd like to know what percentage of businesses want to know how to do it correctly by the book?
Most never do tests on substrates or even a ph test for that matter.
It intrudes on the general consumers privacy and costs money and takes extra time. Too much time.
Those entity's you talk about write rules that take time and lots of extra expense. Who wants to take three extra days to just throw down some wood or tile?
Last Edited 7/17/2008
8:45:25 PM
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| David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 7/17/2008 9:16:45 PM
I know this installer in Southern Arizona that would.
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| Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 7/17/2008 10:44:36 PM
Stephen,
we have to watch this guy,,,
do you or should I put in a call to the "Obbbeeeeessssssseeeedddd
INSTALLER!" ,,,he will straighten these guys out fast,,,whatever
happen to him?
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| Roger Gerber
Posts: 327
Since: 3/17/2008
| 7/17/2008 11:19:55 PM
Which one Selva?
We have had a couple, Chuckie, Jim R., Ken F.
And then the obsessed inspectors!!!!!!!! I won't go there!!!!!
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| Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 7/18/2008 12:08:14 AM
no no no no Roger,
he haunted the old AFS forum to the point they fled in absolute
terror each time he logged in,,,,
got so, the cleaners were scared to post anything at all because
he kept correcting them,,,,,and showed them they were
stupid/wrong/double stupid wrong!
it got, very embarrassing for the owners and industry shakers
over there,,,,they even tried to bribe him with free certs if he
would just stop proving them wrong all the time,,,,
then, one day, he went away for a while, supposely, but the truth
is, they cornered him down in the deserts of ole meck i co and
shot him down dead like an old dog, or so the story goes, and
lefty can't sing the blues all night like he use to.
slt
Last Edited 7/18/2008
4:12:35 PM
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| Roger Gerber
Posts: 327
Since: 3/17/2008
| 7/18/2008 7:31:58 AM
I think he is lurking a few posts up.
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| Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 7/18/2008 10:20:17 AM
nononono,
I heard he died there, and no one heard his dying words,
come on guys, that is two referenceS to a great song!
when Emly Lou does it, I cry ever time,,,,
you know, for a long time, he was let go,,,,out of kindness I
suppose. (three references)
you mean, that is just a story they made up about the legend of
The OBBBBBBBBBBEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSEEEDDDDDD
IIINNNNNNSSSSSTTTTTTTALLLLLLLEEERRRRR BEING DEAD, AND
HE IS REALLY ALIVE AND WELL?? WHERE???? COME FORTH OH
GREAT ONE, AND LEAD US ONCE AGAIN FROM THE BARREN
LAND!
Last Edited 7/18/2008
10:29:53 AM
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| Barry Carlton
Posts: 162
Since: 6/30/2008
| 7/18/2008 6:35:18 PM
I think Lee is just making fun of my stuttering
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| Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 7/18/2008 9:10:27 PM
nononono,
Poncho and Lefty!
PANCHO AND LEFTY
(written by Townes Van Zandt)
as done by Emmylou Harris on her album Luxury Liner
C G
Living on the road my friend, is gonna keep you free and clean
F
Now you wear your skin like iron,
C G
Your breath as hard as kerosene.
F C F
You weren't your mama's only boy, but her favorite one it seems
C F C G
She began to cry when you said goodbye,
F Am Am G C
And sank into your dreams.
C G
Pancho was a bandit boys, his horse was fast as polished steel
F
He wore his gun outside his pants
C G
For all the honest world to feel.
F C F
Pancho met his match you know on the deserts down in Mexico
C F C G F Am Am G F
Nobody heard his dying words, ah but that's the way it goes.
F C F
All the Federales say they could have had him any day
C F C G F Am
They only let him slip away out of kindness, I suppose.
Am G C
C G
Lefty, he can't sing the blues all night long like he used to.
F C G
The dust that Pancho bit down south ended up in Lefty's mouth
F C F
The day they laid poor Pancho low, Lefty split for Ohio
C F C G F Am
Where he got the bread to go, there ain't nobody knows
Am G F
F C F
All the Federales say they could have had him any day
C F C G F Am Am G C
They only let him slip away out of kindness, I suppose.
C G
Poets tell how Pancho fell, and Lefty's living in a cheap hotel
F
The desert's quiet and Cleveland's cold,
C G
And so the story ends we're told
F C F
Pancho needs your prayers it's true, but save a few for Lefty too
C F C G F Am
He only did what he had to do, and now he's growing old
Am G F
F C F
All the Federales say they could have had him any day
C F C G F Am
They only let him slip away out of kindness, I suppose.
Am G F
F C F
A few gray Federales say they could have had him any day
C F C G F Am
They only let him go so long, out of of kindness, I suppose.
Last Edited 7/18/2008
9:48:55 PM
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| Stephen Perrera
Posts: 823
Since: 5/27/2008
| 7/19/2008 12:05:10 PM
Well I heard the obsessed one was still alive in Old Mehico living with shamans, the likes of Don Juan and morrison. He is the lizard king. The area is on the Yaqui indian terrority. They eat their lophophora williamisi, talk to lizards and have fun.
In one of my many travels to old mehico I found this writing inscribed on a wall:
"The world of everyday life cannot ever be taken as something personal that has power over us, something that could make us, or destroy us, because man's battlefield in not in his strife with the world around him. His battlefield is over the horizon, in an area which is unthinkable for the average man, the area where man ceases to be a man
DW - OB - JM"
Last Edited 7/19/2008
12:08:23 PM
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