5/31/2008
11:57:57 PM 

Stephen I’ve seen the same situation before but it had one wrinkle and it was power stretched twice. Third time out to power stretch customers had it cleaned and wrinkle was gone. It has been five years now and it still looks good. I have no ideal what caused it.

6/1/2008
10:38:16 AM 

Steven,

I owe you an apology.

I just received a call from David Kern which made me go back with a level head
and read your post again. I took it the complete wrong way and I apologize.

For those of you who know about my son, Larry, yesterday was his 19th birthday
and it was an extremely hard day for me and my wife and needless to say, my mind
was in a fog and I apologize for coming off so defensive and out of my mind. There was no call for it.

I also want to thank you, Steven, for 'trying' to hold an informational
conversation with me. I would be happy to continue if I haven't offended you too much while in my fog.

6/1/2008
2:09:24 PM 

Darian,

You have apologized several times for miss-behaving and I've never seen you miss-behave or offend anyone.
So stop apologizing already..

These are discussions.
Discussions contain various statements that somebody may not agree with.

Disagreements are not offensive. Sharing different observations or opinions is not offensive.
Disagreements are only offensive to arrogant know-it-alls, such as myself ...

I know you are going through difficult times and I cannot image what that is like. Don't worry about being offensive......... heck.. if you disagree or see something differently WE WANT TO READ WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY !!
So don't be afraid of hurting anybody's feelings, just say what you have to say about a subject or topic.

A post is offensive when there is an attack on an individual, for expample: "Stephen is an ugly donkey and therefore his opinions are invalid"...

Relax and enjoy and stop being afraid of making posts.
It's our differences that make us great, not our sameness.

And, as you will learn, I am different..

Respectfully and your Friend,

Ray

6/1/2008
4:59:38 PM 

What gets difficult on these issues is the possibility of damage due to lack of proper power stretching the first time.
If the carpet wrinkles and buckles, then walked on; the latex can break down and the backing elongate (primary or secondary)... and it will buckle again.
By your testimony; you are saying it was stretched properly in one direction. You know the width must be stretched as well as the length to 1.5%.
Cannot make a blanket statement on these problems as there is not enough information to go on and we cannot be assured it was RE-stretched properly either.... even though you did the re-stretch..

6/1/2008
9:26:56 PM 

Stephen thanks for making me search this subject. Here's one of many that I have found and I just really like this one.

Stretch everything the same way and there will be no problems.

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=2007090056&IA=WO2007090056&DISPLAY=DESC

Thanks Ray I'll try to remember to stop apologizing already..
Hey maybe some time when your in my area I’ll let you buy me lunch.

6/2/2008
10:14:09 AM 

"You keep saying there should be "nothing" on the backing......"


I never said nothing, I said no tiger tracks like you said should be there on set walls.

6/2/2008
7:33:50 PM 

Hey Darian, I'll be up in your area every month now.
Two inspectors bit the dust up there, or at least we cannot find them anymore...

So, now I have to cover Jacksonville. I have your number and will call when I know I'll be in the area and David said he'll buy Lunch..... or is my memory a bit cloudy on that issue?

6/5/2008
9:24:05 PM 

Darian,

That link you posted still works. It is an outstanding article (very technical) titled 'IMPROVED SECONDARY CARPET BACKING AND BUCKLING RESISTANT CARPET MADE THEREFROM'.

6/5/2008
11:35:37 PM 

Nice find Darian, thats a keeper in my carpet files.

Quote: Researchers have spent many years looking for ways to eliminate buckling. However, because the tendency of a carpet to buckle depends on many factors, including the extent of trafficking, carpet construction, carpet cushion properties, and installation quality, researchers have had limited success. Adding further complication, carpet construction variables, including carpet backing types, binder type and amount, and tufting patterns, also affect the tendency of a

carpet to buckle. Therefore, because so many factors affect buckling, few definitive studies have been done to understand the impact of carpet construction variables on buckling.

In addition to the above, for any modified carpet backing to be adopted for commercial use, the new fabric must impart the same performance characteristics as the conventional fabric provides and also advance the level of performance in at least one area. Further, the improved product should add no complexity and little cost to the current operations for making the fabric and carpet.

One approach to reducing or eliminating buckling is to modify the primary carpet backing fabric. In US Patent Application Publication 2004/0077242, published April 22, 2004, it has been proposed to interweave reinforcing yarns into a primary backing to improve carpet properties. However, this approach involves additional materials (i.e., reinforcing yarns) and involves a more expensive and complex manufacturing process. For example, the manufacturing process is more complex because it involves multiple types of warp yams.

Other approaches, such as U.S. Patent No. 3,817,817, issued June 18, 1974, propose that fibers be needlepunched into a fabric normally used as a primary backing to construct a modified secondary carpet backing to improve dimensional stability. While this approach can lead to improved stability, the modified fabric requires a separate manufacturing step after weaving. In addition, a secondary carpet backing modified in this way does not permit the same rate of water removal from the latex binder as does a common 16 warp ends/inch by 5 pick ends/inch (also referred to as "16X5") leno weave secondary carpet backing. Thus, such a modified secondary carpet backing may increase manufacturing costs due to reduced carpet manufacturing speeds.

For the reasons described above, conventional approaches to reducing carpet buckling have yet to prove satisfactory. Therefore, there exists a need in the art for a secondary carpet backing fabric that imparts improved buckling resistance to a carpet made therefrom, that may be manufactured utilizing conventional weaving processes, that may be laminated to carpet in a process identical to that routinely used with conventional secondary backings, and that

exhibits performance qualities, such as tuft bind and peel strength, which may be similar to or better than conventional secondary carpet backings.

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