| Author | Message |
Darian Brown 
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
|  5/19/2008 12:35:24 PM 
Pondering is just what we all need to do, it helps us think in different ways and thinking never hurt anyone as far as I know. Ray I do have more Darian's working with me, as I said I'm not selfish I'm just different. I train my guys everyday and I ask for there options on everything we do and we grow together as a finally oiled team. When it is time Darian # 2 will be set up with all the things he needs and I will be there for him and support him all the way.
By the way Ray, there are other installers Business men just like me, that share my views and some of them have been teaching on the internet forever that I have learned from.
As far as can see today, the growth potential is endless and more ideals keep coming as I am growing everyday.
As far as an organizations goes I don't have a problem with them and they are a needed asset to the retail installation community.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 5/27/2008 6:52:35 AM
Darian,
I hope Stephen starts participating and reading your posts.
He is an excellent mechanic but believes in being "An Island"...
There is strenght in numbers.
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Stephen Perrera
Posts: 823
Since: 5/27/2008
| 5/27/2008 2:34:02 PM
CFI Advertise? What a concept. It would help if the manufactures threw in a couple lines about them in ads if they were really so worried about bad installation and performance of their installed product.. Would cost practically nothing. A smidgen about the installation standards would help as no consumer...even builders and architects I have ever spoken with even realized there are installation standards.
You mean "strength" in numbers. I was a number once #4738 R-II D-II 
Last Edited 5/27/2008
2:36:25 PM
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 5/28/2008 7:11:42 PM
sheesh Stephen..
I am #1 !! LOL
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John Draper
Posts: 76
Since: 10/29/2007
| 5/29/2008 10:18:57 AM
Well the Manufactures look at it as a win win. If the floor not in right they don't have to warranty it or they get a new sale
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Roger Gerber
Posts: 327
Since: 3/17/2008
| 5/29/2008 12:04:27 PM
John, your link for your site does not work.
Maybe ya gotta pay the bill?
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 5/29/2008 12:19:32 PM
quote:
Well the Manufactures look at it as a win win. If the floor not in right they don't have to warranty it or they get a new sale
Where do you come up with this one? The last thing ANY manufacturer wants are problems. Often, manufacturers ship product even though the complaints are not justified to keep customers happy.
Everybody is better off with good workmanship and installers knowledgeable and skilled enough to work around product imperfections.
Nothing is perfect and good installers know that they must inspect product prior to installation and work around potential problems.
Say what you want and think what you want, but installers are the last inspectors prior to installation.
It's always been this way even when I was installing in the 60's and 70's.
We checked tile for squareness, carpet for visible flaws, and so on.
We found streaks and problems often, but we took the time to figure out how to work around that streak and complete the job.
What is wrong with today's whinning installation community?
Be professional and take care of business rather than continue to point fingers at everybody else.
Flooring materials will never be perfect. Nothing will ever be perfect.
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Stephen Perrera
Posts: 823
Since: 5/27/2008
| 5/29/2008 4:09:35 PM
Textiles are not perfect but they did come closer to it than in the old days than they do now I think. Quality controll is lacking and typically beyond the QC insopectors visual control due to the speed its made these days vs yesteryears.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 5/29/2008 6:15:34 PM
quote:
Textiles are not perfect but they did come closer to it than in the old days than they do now I think. Quality controll is lacking and typically beyond the QC insopectors visual control due to the speed its made these days vs yesteryears.
You cannot justify this statement.
There used to be "seconds" "streaks" "off color"
Rolls sold.
We used to buy seconds and streaks at a huge discount and sell them as "Visible" flawed material, roll out the rolls to show to customers, sell the carpet and install it as seconds.
When was the last time you could buy a roll of seconds ?? They use to produce TONS of off-goods.
The quality control in all facets of manufacturing is better today than ever before.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 5/29/2008 6:17:02 PM
By the way: Topic is on CFI training.
They are having an Inspector Course in Dalton and the "convention" is coming up.
ANYBODY going?
I'm not. I'm keeping every penny I can until this "slow-down" is behind us.
Nothing wrong with training;;; it's just that I gotta keep my money in the wallet these days.
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Stephen Perrera
Posts: 823
Since: 5/27/2008
| 5/29/2008 6:38:56 PM
"When was the last time you could buy a roll of seconds "
They sell it as first quality now and if accepted then they are ahead of the game. Oh yeah once in awile they pay an inspector 50 bucks to go look at it, but hey that the game they play.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 5/29/2008 7:30:16 PM
I agree with you Stephen and I must say I'm enjoying it...
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John Draper
Posts: 76
Since: 10/29/2007
| 5/29/2008 8:36:51 PM
well if no one can do a training I'm not going to put it together
By the way In the 70s I made two fifty a yard to install carpet, a new truck cost 5,000. And today they want you to put carpet down for three fifty a yard and a new truck cost 30,000. If you can afford the gas for it. If the manufacturers really wanted a good job done they would require a certified installer to install their products.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 5/29/2008 8:48:06 PM
John,
In the 1960's we got 1.50.
In the 70's, we got 1/75 to 2.00.
But for Straight Residential work, move furniture and do whatever it took, the fee was 2.25 to 2.50.
That's right;; we did not get EXTRA to move furniture or remove existing carpet and cushion. It was part of the Job.
I resided near San Francisco and worked San Francisco for those fees.
That is why our little team worked ONLY multi-unit new construction for 1.50 to 1.75 per yard. We did not like tearing up old carpet and moving furniture.
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John Draper
Posts: 76
Since: 10/29/2007
| 5/29/2008 9:04:28 PM
I worked in upstate NY and I some one pay to move thing we did get $ 1.00 per.step.
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Roland Thompson
Posts: 281
Since: 2/27/2008
| 5/29/2008 10:24:20 PM
I will be going to the CFI Convention and I am going to swing by and pick up Steve if he will go with me.
I started out in 72 at 5.00 an hour then when I went out on my own in 77 I got 1.75 empty and 2.25 with furiture nothing extra for boxed steps.
Call me pickey but I do not get my tools out for under 5.00
FD
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 5/29/2008 10:31:36 PM
5.00 x 100 s/y per day equals 500.00.
What are the expenses in earning that $500.00?
Do you, and a helper, install an average of 100 s/y per day?
I see why Stephanie likes hard surface and laminate installations. I think hard surface guys are earning higher fees and daily incomes............. but I don't really know.
I'm guess Stephanie is also complaining about inspections because he would do maybe one per day. Full time inspectors don't leave the house for one, or two stops.... 4 is a minimum, I would think....
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Roland Thompson
Posts: 281
Since: 2/27/2008
| 5/29/2008 10:46:19 PM
That is base grade carpet empty at 5.00 and I can still do that with no help in an 8 hour day. Normaly I will have a guy help me and we are done with 100 yds 5 hours and I pay him 40% after about 30.00 in supplies. Now we are talking straight installtion most of the time I get into custom work and woven products and price go's up from there and how much sq ft go's down. I price everything by the sq ft now hardly ever think of it by the sq yd. You can tell a person it only is 10 cents more a sq ft and that is 90 cents a yd more.
What do you feel is a far living wage per week for this or any other trade is?
FD
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 5/29/2008 11:12:51 PM
i would think minimum wage for a skilled craft would be minimum at 1200 per week.
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Stephen Perrera
Posts: 823
Since: 5/27/2008
| 5/30/2008 12:43:46 AM
Hey I R&R'd 2 6x6 entryway's GD, in two hours today and made 450. How much a yard is that?
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