| Author | Message |
Jim Ryan 
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
|  3/5/2008 8:19:59 PM 
If you have a carpet that has 22 pounds of tuft bind, should you use a sealer and if so, why? Please use common sense. Forget the rules for just a moment. You are absolved of anything you say here. Just say this is the old days.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/5/2008 10:35:04 PM
quote:
If you have a carpet that has 22 pounds of tuft bind, should you use a sealer and if so, why? Please use common sense. Forget the rules for just a moment. You are absolved of anything you say here. Just say this is the old days.
Does anyone understand what 22 pound tuft bind means?
Does anyone understand how to lose the 22 pound tuft bind? In other words, make a 22 pound tuft bind, into say a 5 pound tuft bind or less?
Ya knooooow, feedback is always helpful, unless you know it all and then, if you do, why the heck am I even saying anything???
Oh, I see, you all want to be able to say you knew all that stuff. How silly of me.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/5/2008 11:18:03 PM
hahahahahahahaha, nevermind, I should know better by now.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/7/2008 7:59:14 PM
Jim,
The tuft bind is one thing, the kind of backing used to obtain that tuft bind is another.
To answer this question is a blanket statement.
It is not the tuft bind that dictates the use of a sealer....
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 8:15:39 PM
quote:
Jim,
The tuft bind is one thing, the kind of backing used to obtain that tuft bind is another.
To answer this question is a blanket statement.
It is not the tuft bind that dictates the use of a sealer....
Ray, how much tuft bind is industry standard? Why are seams sealed--do you think--- and how can a man take a 22 pound tuft bind piece of carpet and destroy its tuft bind?
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/7/2008 8:21:09 PM
There is not industry standard.
There is FHA standard.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 8:37:59 PM
quote:
There is not industry standard.
There is FHA standard.
There has always been an industry standard Ray, since I was 17 years old. The least it has ever been is 7 pounds of tuft bind, by industry standards. Would you like to know why?
Let me ask ya Ray, what is face weight and where do consumers learn about it?
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/7/2008 8:48:35 PM
show me where i can find this industry standard....
There are standards, then there are acceptable limits...
Standards are in writing. Show me the standards for tuft bind other than FHA...
Residential: 4#
Commercial: 6#
Back pull is???
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 8:53:19 PM
quote:
show me where i can find this industry standard....
There are standards, then there are acceptable limits...
Standards are in writing. Show me the standards for tuft bind other than FHA...
Residential: 4#
Commercial: 6#
Back pull is???
Ray, show us where the industry teaches the consumers about face weight.
I will answer your questions after you answer this question.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 9:21:11 PM
quote:
Ray, show us where the industry teaches the consumers about face weight.
I will answer your questions after you answer this question.
Bump
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 9:24:42 PM
Ray, back in 1971, what was industry standard for pad and where did the industry have it posted?
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 9:33:51 PM
quote:
show me where i can find this industry standard....
There are standards, then there are acceptable limits...
Standards are in writing. Show me the standards for tuft bind other than FHA...
Residential: 4#
Commercial: 6#
Back pull is???
hahahahahahahaha, 4#'s, you can almost get that much pull with a vaccum cleaner Ray. Seriously Ray, quit foolin around.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/7/2008 10:20:37 PM
Those are FHA minimum requirements. True..
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 10:25:20 PM
quote:
Those are FHA minimum requirements. True..
So much for ignorant people.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 10:27:46 PM
Buy yourself a tuft bind tester Ray. It will be accurate to about 1/4 pound.
Test when no one is looking Ray, you might be surprised what you learn, but you won't be able to use it or what you learn from it or else you'd have one now.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/7/2008 10:40:01 PM
quote:
So much for ignorant people.
FHA-UM 44D, I believe is the standard.
It states 4# and 6# minimum.. .actually.. it has it in ounces and you may be closer at 7# for commercial than I am at 6#.. however......... tuft bind is not important.
FHA Data UM44D: MEA 77117 Type: I & IIA Class:
UCharacteristics U UValueU UTest MethodU
Pile Yarn Weight oz. sq. yd. See Types and Classes ASTM D 418
Density oz. sq. yd. See Types and Classes N/A
Tuft Bind 6.25 lb. loop ASTM D 1335
6.25 lb. cut & loop
3.0 lb. cut pile only
Delamination Strength 2.5 lb. ASTM D 3936
Although the HUD Building Product Standards and Certification Program for Carpet, UM44d makes no reference to carpet flammability requirements, this information can be found in the Federal Register
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 10:48:41 PM
quote:
FHA-UM 44D, I believe is the standard.
It states 4# and 6# minimum.. .actually.. it has it in ounces and you may be closer at 7# for commercial than I am at 6#.. however......... tuft bind is not important.
FHA Data UM44D: MEA 77117 Type: I & IIA Class:
UCharacteristics U UValueU UTest MethodU
Pile Yarn Weight oz. sq. yd. See Types and Classes ASTM D 418
Density oz. sq. yd. See Types and Classes N/A
Tuft Bind 6.25 lb. loop ASTM D 1335
6.25 lb. cut & loop
3.0 lb. cut pile only
Delamination Strength 2.5 lb. ASTM D 3936
Although the HUD Building Product Standards and Certification Program for Carpet, UM44d makes no reference to carpet flammability requirements, this information can be found in the Federal Register
Ray, of all my years on the floor, industry standards have been 7 pounds of tuft bind and that's not very strong, but well, that's what it has been.
Our industry used to teach face weight and it quit that too Ray, but that doesn't mean it wasn't SOP for many years.
I guess this industry can do whatever it wants, but then why does it complain so hard and so loud? hahahahahahahahaha
You can't teach me things different than what all my years on the floor proved Ray.
Tell us Ray, why did this industry sell one inch high padding, up until 1998 or 99, when the tachstrip, tacks included, just a little taller than 7/16ths of an inch high?
Tell us all Ray, how could an entire industry be so dumb for so long and then all of a sudden get smart and have a standard?
Please Ray, don't try it, you can't win this one.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/7/2008 10:49:26 PM
The minimum standard for cut pile is 3#.
It is written..........
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 10:53:44 PM
quote:
The minimum standard for cut pile is 3#.
It is written..........
You didn't address my above post Ray. I don't do that to you.
The hud can put whatever standards they want, but how can hud, an obviously ignorant org, make standards for carpet co's. hahahahahahahahahaha.
Thanks for the laugh Ray and you should be smarter than what you're letting on.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
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