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| | | Author | Message | Jim Ryan 
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
|  3/5/2008 1:20:06 PM 
I wasn't able to do the job today, because of issues with the wood transition itself, however, in one of Rays former posts, he said that what I saw inbetween the joints was wood filler, along with what was seen on the surface.
As I was asking this man about his Norweigen wood, I asked about the lighter colored stuff in the joints and he said it was glue.
I didn't bother telling the consumer about the areas in the wood that are filled and with age, show-up a lot more.
From what I wasn't hearing in the other thread, retailers don't want to bring this issues to the fore. WHY NOT? I can guess, but I'd rather hear it from ya'll.
If the above is true, ya'll are missing so much and yes, I can tell you why, but not if I don't get any feed back. Fear gets you nothing but stagnation and Ray is not the retailers spokesman or he would have said what should already be a widely practiced sales pitch in the industry.
It's not always what you hear, but more often, what you don't hear.
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/5/2008 1:50:09 PM
I ask, can the wood that has been filled, be seen when the finishing is just completed or does it take time and sunlight to reveal which boards are filled?
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| David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 3/5/2008 7:39:13 PM
quote:
I ask, can the wood that has been filled, be seen when the finishing is just completed or does it take time and sunlight to reveal which boards are filled?
Having sold tens of thouands of square feet of wood flooring in my lifetime, I can say that much depends upon the experience level of the installer as well as the quality of filler used.
Most installers can make a job initially look acceptable. However, over time, fluctuations in interior climate, cleaning methods used, overall maintenance schedule, direct sunlight, normal mishaps (spills etc.), and wear will serarate the average installer from the exceptional one.
So I guess Jim, the answer is not that easy or cut and dry.
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/5/2008 8:13:36 PM
Good answer floorlifer. I would ask, do all fillers show-up with time and sunlight?
If a man looked real close, could he tell if a board had been filled?
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| David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 3/5/2008 8:15:49 PM
quote:
Good answer floorlifer. I would ask, do all fillers show-up with time and sunlight?
If a man looked real close, could he tell if a board had been filled?
Absolutely Jim.
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/5/2008 8:21:29 PM
quote:
Absolutely Jim.
Then can you think of a way to turn a negative into a positive, in this case?
If not you, anybody?
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| David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 3/5/2008 8:33:07 PM
quote:
Then can you think of a way to turn a negative into a positive, in this case?
If not you, anybody?
At the point of sale, explain to the customer what filler is and why it needs to be used in the first place.
Also explain that wood is a natural product with characteristics that will change over time depending on a number of factors- and definitely emphasize the need to properly maintain the wood floor.
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/5/2008 8:52:22 PM
If I were selling wood or anything, having my customers trust would be all important--at least for me and some others in life.
From what I'm not hearing, flooring retailers in general don't say anything about the filled wood.
I understand that, but as a non salesperson, I think that is wrong, JUST BECAUSE of the job Ray was on and the surprise to the homeowner--about the filled boards and how the sun light was making the filled boards show-up badly to the homeowner.
If I were the salesperson, I would tell my customers that all wood has a problem,--BUT, I have a way of dealing with it, so almost no one will ever know, will you buy your wood floor from me-us? If you were to talk to every other business in town that sells wood and not one of them will tell you of this situation, doesn't it seem that they may not help you as good as I-we can?
Now if you--the customer tells other sales people, they will probably admit it, but ask yourself, did they tell you without coersion?
Yes, some people go shopping for the best deals and they want all you can tell them and then thinking they have that knowledge, they can find a cheaper seller and still get what you told them. Yes, I understand the pitfalls and I know that sooner or later all will know and use that in their sales pitch,--as well as one customer will tell other customers.
By the way, here in Jacksonville, back in 93, when I first started doing repairs, as I came across people that had no extra carpet to do repairs, I simply told them we could use carpoet in one of their closets and put new back in the closet and no problem. After about 3 years of that, people started offering me that solution.
Anyhow, to the point.
A salesperson could tell their customers of the fillers and ask them if they would mind helping the installers and themselves at the same time.
Tell them the installers will cut open each box so it acclimates better and when the consumer has a little time, they can look closely and seperate the filled from those not filled. If the customers are unable to see well, then they installers can do it. You could upcharge for such, but that may not be the best to do.--Up to you.
Then tell them that if there are any closets in the jobs, those pieces will all be put in the closets, or at least as many as possible, while all the rest of the filled pieces are installed where sunlight won't get to the boards, like under where a couch goes, --a bed--you get the idea.
Turn a negative into a positive.
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| Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/6/2008 6:00:55 AM
It's Wood.
Wood shrinks and swells... It gaps... We fill the gaps.
Simple as that.
WOod ain't no laminate
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/6/2008 7:07:09 AM
How exactly, does your last post address what my post said, Ray?
At the moment, I'm guessing you are claiming nothing can be done and that what I offered is totally wrong???
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/6/2008 7:20:37 AM
Maybe I understand what you are saying Ray. I might not agree, because it just might be that the finishers in maybe a few cases aren't that good.
A game of numbers creates as much or more, than if not, not only in that immediate, but in everything allowed around the immediate.
Anything one can do, another can do better and the more allowed, the more that must be allowed.
It's either one way or the other. Need one ask.
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| Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/7/2008 10:30:14 PM
Jim,
First of all we don't know why the floor was filled. We don't know the grade of wood. We don't know who installed the floor.
If the gapping is pervasive, it may be a defect in the material or in the installation.
If the gapping is not pervasive, not excessive and the wood is not moving (shrinking and swelling) to pop the filler out............. what the heck? It's wood and we have the right to fill.
So how can we place blame when we don't have evidence to indicate WHY the wood had to be filled??
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 10:38:04 PM
quote:
Jim,
First of all we don't know why the floor was filled. We don't know the grade of wood. We don't know who installed the floor.
If the gapping is pervasive, it may be a defect in the material or in the installation.
If the gapping is not pervasive, not excessive and the wood is not moving (shrinking and swelling) to pop the filler out............. what the heck? It's wood and we have the right to fill.
So how can we place blame when we don't have evidence to indicate WHY the wood had to be filled??
Ray, try not to twist word and meaning. Where was I placing blame? I thought I was saying, teach the consumers, so they trust us and then we won't have so many inspection needs and we will have happier customers, that tell others and they help expand our businesses.
At least that was my overall theme--I believe.
Maybe I'm wrong, just show me so I can correct it, thanks.
Last Edited 3/7/2008
10:39:19 PM
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| Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/7/2008 10:45:46 PM
you are right.
You want more repairs as that is your business.
I deal with problems and want more screw ups and mis-understandings to increase my business.
You'll find I am of few words and factual. Remember that as an inspector I have no personal opinions.
I see what I see, and reference Industry Standards or Manufacturer standards.....
In other words:
1. Here is the condition found at the site.
2. Here are the field tests performed.
3. Here is Industry Standards/Manufacturer STandards.
Comparing what I saw and tested for to the Industry Standards finds Jim Ryan responsible for World War II.
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/7/2008 11:22:27 PM
quote:
you are right.
You want more repairs as that is your business.
I deal with problems and want more screw ups and mis-understandings to increase my business.
You'll find I am of few words and factual. Remember that as an inspector I have no personal opinions.
I see what I see, and reference Industry Standards or Manufacturer standards.....
In other words:
1. Here is the condition found at the site.
2. Here are the field tests performed.
3. Here is Industry Standards/Manufacturer STandards.
Comparing what I saw and tested for to the Industry Standards finds Jim Ryan responsible for World War II.
Jim Ryan responsible for World War II.
Nah, that wars already taken. Besides, most don't know the truths about that war, but hey, not a good idea to go there. This is about flooring and informational things.
I know from a lifetime Ray, that everything and everyone, depend on everything and everyone else. I know that common sense is a treasure and that when human beings go down the wrong path for the reason of money, it is usually the children that suffer the most.
You are far from dumb Ray, but you sure like to twist things up. I am not so easily fooled Ray and I can be very harsh, but I would much rather be very friendly.
I know a little about being a tactician and I even like it--hypothetically and depending on the field, but I am far from your normal prey Ray. If you try to treat me as such again, I can make things tougher, but I will hate it. I hate even more Ray, when people think they can treat me as an idiot.
Be smart like you can be Ray and don't fuss with me.
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Transmitted: 5/12/2026
2:14:50 PM
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