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| | | Author | Message | Jim Ryan 
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
|  2/11/2008 6:33:59 AM 
The title statement was taken from another board,--within a thread. I believe the statement is true for several reasons.
Perhaps the wood floor customers across the country should bring a class action law suit. 
Now what's the name of the new policy board? Can you say egg on their face? Is that board going to pay for a class action law suit--as it claims to set standards or is that just for the carpet industry?
Most want to make policy, but they never took the time to work hard enough, long enough and well enough to understand all they need to know,--hence we get the ignorance of the CRI--when it comes to stretching.
Now who's advising all these consumers to buy wood and can any of you tell us why this is happening across the country?
I'll give you a hint. It's crackling more in the colder climes. Now comes the hard part, does anyone in this industry really want to know or care?
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 2/12/2008 7:17:01 AM
The major cause of wood floors crackling are likely to be loss of moisture to the concrete slabs, which in turn dries-out the glue holding the wood.
It seems to me that installers and the industry should pay close attention to this. Of course if they did, they would have to sell less wood and more tile. Not as much money there, but better for your customers.
It of course would also teach not only our industry new things, but others as well.
Yea, our industry believes knowledge is power,--as long as it doesn't interfere with their money.
What good is proof if it gets in the way of money? You won't know as long as that is all that matters to you.
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 2/12/2008 7:43:54 AM
As the above case presents, so must an opposing case exist, IE: If too much moisture exists in any slab, it's likely to create mold and mildue, which will feed off of the glues holding the wood and or carpet to the floor, if they are directly glued down to the concrete.
Now, with this new ammunition, will our industry learn from it or will it simply use this new knowledge to say that it's the consumers fault for not knowing the laws of nature--even if this industry hasn't either.
I can tell you for a fact, that learning all you can, for the right reasons in the correct manner and applying them to your customers--for the right reasons in the correct manner, leads to a whole lot more knowledge, the need and desire to tell the truth and have your customers trust you, helping your co. to gain,--even when you lose.
I just lost a 9,000.00 sale --if I'm right, because the home owner liked the fact that a smart young--go getter--woman, was taking care of her sale. Now that seems fair, but does the sales-woman have time to baby-sit the job through all 3 phases and or should she? What does that young woman know and does anyone really believe that any installer would let her run their jobs? If you do, please tell us why.
From all I've heard from the young sales-womans co's customers, that have used my repair services, the consumers choice seems questionable, but I didn't tell her of that companys past.
From my experience, telling any customer of bad things about other co's does no good.
There was glue-down parquet on the floor until now. I don't know if some was coming up before the flood or just since the flood or none at all.
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| Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 2/19/2008 5:20:22 PM
quote:
The major cause of wood floors crackling are likely to be loss of moisture to the concrete slabs, which in turn dries-out the glue holding the wood.
It seems to me that installers and the industry should pay close attention to this. Of course if they did, they would have to sell less wood and more tile. Not as much money there, but better for your customers.
It of course would also teach not only our industry new things, but others as well.
Yea, our industry believes knowledge is power,--as long as it doesn't interfere with their money.
What good is proof if it gets in the way of money? You won't know as long as that is all that matters to you.
Mr. Ryan..
The concrete PULLING moisture out of the glue? Are you saying concrete REMOVES water from wood and glue? Are you sure about that?
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 2/19/2008 6:01:26 PM
quote:
Mr. Ryan..
The concrete PULLING moisture out of the glue? Are you saying concrete REMOVES water from wood and glue? Are you sure about that?
Positive. It can also feed moisture into glue and wood for as long as it remains there.
As to the moisture entering the wood from the glue, it's not likely to be much, hence no warping, but in cases where there is a flood, it seems real easy to understand such--doesn't it?
Since I have been a repairman since 1993, I have gone on just about every imaginable problem for carpet.
If anyone cares to do my work, they will understand,--if they know to look. Me, I question everything, wheather it is coming-up or going-down. That's why I know so much more.
No other entities in the flooring business have so much information at their fingertips, they just have to know how to process it and of course, start their own business in this field. Most don't make it in the repair end of this business--as if you listen to most guys, they complain they can't make their seams disappear--AND, they are taught to run all their lives. They don't know how to slow-down.
For me to do one square inset in the middle of a room--say 15"by15", it takes usually one hour. Most installers would not understand how the time is spent.
As to the glue-downs, if you take-up carpet that has been glued-down and as you pull it off the floor, the glue is a darker brown and the carpet comes off the floor pretty easy, that shows the glue has dried-out, but if the glue is still its origional color and has legs, that means the concrete has fed the glue with a pretty consistent stream of moisture over the years and many times I have pulled carpet off the floor 10--12 and more years after its initial install, where the glue was stil wet and very hard to take-up.
That's how I know.
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| Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 2/19/2008 8:11:35 PM
Concrete has higher moisture content than wood, and wood is hygroscopic as well as Aquaphylic.
The moisture moves into the wood, not the reverse.
The crackling noises we are hearing in wood floating floors are due to Excessive Deflection, lack of expansion gapping, improper milling and/or contaminants on the tongue.
x
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 2/19/2008 9:32:25 PM
quote:
Concrete has higher moisture content than wood, and wood is hygroscopic as well as Aquaphylic.
The moisture moves into the wood, not the reverse.
The crackling noises we are hearing in wood floating floors are due to Excessive Deflection, lack of expansion gapping, improper milling and/or contaminants on the tongue.
x
By Excessive Deflection, do you mean that the wood moves so much that it squeeks--rubbing wood on wood or that some materials after quite a bit of walking will break-down in other ways?
To your first statement,--you are dead wrong in some cases and you should know that, by what else I've shown, but obviously, you aren't listening and understanding.
As to your second statement, you are wrong again. Concrete and glue are also hygroscopic. Moisture can also be transferred both ways between wood or material, concrete and glue, depending on which is the driest, as long as they are in contact with one another.
Who is teaching you such limited information?
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| Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 2/19/2008 10:30:40 PM
I'm sorry Jim, but moisture moves from high to low concentrations, not low to high.
Basic Chemistry.
I did understand you to say that the moisture moves from the wood into the concrete? No?
x
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 2/19/2008 10:42:58 PM
quote:
I'm sorry Jim, but moisture moves from high to low concentrations, not low to high.
Basic Chemistry.
I did understand you to say that the moisture moves from the wood into the concrete? No?
x
Just because you don't comprehend, doesn't mean others don't.
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| Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 2/19/2008 10:45:12 PM
you are saying moisture moves from the wood and the glue into the concrete sub-floor on a floating floor?
I'm telling you that moisture moves into the wood from the concrete whether it is glued or floated... The wood moisture content is too low..
You are way off on this one Jim.
x
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Transmitted: 5/12/2026
1:26:27 PM
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