12/7/2008
11:55:22 PM 

I was thinking the same thing. But with the addition of job searches! And I don't mean flooring.

There are some company's out there hiring but the competition is going to be tough.

And you know, these times are when smart entrepreneurs discover new products and new ways to market yourself.

12/8/2008
11:54:45 AM 

wrong thread... lol

12/8/2008
4:52:26 PM 

I am waiting for some lawsuits by some consumers.

Anything for a buck. Any lie about anyone to promote themselves.

Lie about getting help for them then when told no, lie about that.

Seems Steve might be the only honest one and maybe, being honest, has made him a target for the classless ones.

Ever notice, honest people do not attack others since they have nothing to hide. Dishonest people are always blaming others for their failures or
short-comings, attacking them, and spreading rumors, true or false, about others to hide their nefarious actions. They do not know what
responsibility is. They think everyone thinks and behaves as they do, without morals or ethics. They can not conceive of truth and honesty since
they have none.

They have, no shame.

12/9/2008
10:25:55 AM 

WHAT WAS SUGGESTED TO ME IS:

1. many of the internet "dealers" will switch the product. If the consumer ordered a 72oz nylon cut pile, most will receive something in the 40-
52 oz range in polyester or olefin. So, how can they honor a warranty published on the internet or copies sent out for one product but another installed? I would not
send out an inspector either.

2. the manufacturers have no way to control the process since they will not provide sidemark and location for the product. therefore, any means to identify the product
by shipping and ordering invoices is not possible. For example, one could order the 72oz nylon in one roll, sale it many times but actually are selling polyester, a simple
Fiber ID kit can take care of that by an inspector, but, why is that the mills job?

3. sites - some products will be mis-specified since the internet "dealer" will never see the site and to make a buck, will state the product is
good for everywhere. Mis-specification is not accountable by "internet dealers" since they never see the site like a "reality" store will.

4. after sales service does not exist if the consumer does not obtain the services of a good installer or installation company. Consumers are not
professional flooring people, so, they are depended completely upon the sales agent, who, has no direct contact with any local contacts.

5. some internet "dealers" promise to get help but have no network to set up or obtain that help for the consumers and really don't care about
them unless they hope to get future sales from them, then, we know what a sham that is.

6. once I had the unpleasant experience from one internet "dealer" who told people I would help even after I said no, and promised that I would trained the
construction
company's workers on how to install, which I was told later, was part of the "deal" to cut out the real installers because the construction
company did not want to pay honest wages.

7. the only honest approach to internet flooring sales is to have stores where the people can talk face to face after they choose their flooring,
and the store has a list of GOOD installers to help them, and the site can be checked to see if corrective action is needed and the right
flooring for the site. by having a "reality" store, there is a location and people to help when there are problems.

LAST, I TELL ANY AND EVERYONE WHO CONTACTS ME THRU THE NET, IF THE INTERNET SITE DOES NOT HAVE "REALITY" STORES TO BACK UP
THEIR CLAIMS, YOU ARE BETTER OFF GIVING YOU CREDIT CARD NUMBER TO THE AFRICAN PRINCES WHO ARE WANTING TO GIVE EVERY
AMERICAN, IT SEEMS, A BILLION
DOLLARS.

12/9/2008
5:23:55 PM 

Yes Roger,
you ABSOLUTELY DID THE RIGHT
THING!
It is men like YOU who will be
remembered in the " Anal von der
Geschichte"

Do you think I can invest a few of
my billions left to me by my lost
great uncle. It should be in my
account any day now. Just like
someone who tried to tell me I could
be a rep, and unauthorized rep, for a
vinyl company, and all I had to do
was help one company having
problems, and all future sales would
be my commissioned for doing
nothing! and not to worry, he would
handle everything and made sure I
got paid...an example of, an internet
"dealer".

12/10/2008
9:50:04 AM 

Roland,
you just touched on a subject close to me.

Over the years as I enter houses or businesses, I have meet the consumers with "documented evidence" that the product or installation was at fault. Always, with
"documented evidence" it is the internet forums for consumers or they read forums for professionals they misunderstood. The other source, of course, is the dreaded
neighbor who knows it all or the "flooring professional for 89 years" who told "their friend" on the phone or maybe even on site, what the problem is.

I have seen on some forums where it seems "flooring professionals" post to deliberately mislead or misinform the questioners.

Recently, on another forum, I removed myself after posting an industry and scientific definition of a wood term. I later posted sample photographs for them to see. I was
met with rude, and extremely crude behavior by one drunk and others refusal to read or understand what they were reading. The drunk would start off each evening
semi-
polite but as you watch his posting progress, you can actually see the change in his postings become deranged. As the discussion progressed even further, I and other
flooring inspectors who are students, yes students, watched in amazement as they proceeded to "boost" each other up into believing they were wood experts. After that,
they spewed forth conclusions not based upon knowledge and logic but their own made up standards and manufacturing techniques. Any attempts to reason with the
"egos" to help them understand their errors was met with stiff resistance. They were only concerned with showing their "combatants" they are the "smarter one" and out
doing each
other, not
with knowledge but by personal and absurd attacks.

Later, they decided to rewrite the standards and meaning for the hardness testing of wood.

I shared their posting with several people in the wood industry; manufacturers, wood professionals, and wood scientists, and all were horrified such "discussions" could be
and I am sure, read by the public or lesser informed flooring people resulting in great harm to the industry. It was suggested by all I remove myself from there and I did.

As one wood scientist emailed me afterward: 1. they are making up their own standards not based upon true knowledge and are using faulty logic to arrive at completely
wrong conclusions. 2. they did not use or know manufacturing techniques in their deliberations but proceeded to arrogantly post their "understanding of" the procedures
once again using wrong information and faulty logic. I agreed with him further attempts to help those people was useless.

It was not about knowledge, learning and sharing instead it was all about "attacking to win to show how smart they are", but, the sad result was they revealed how
immature and ignorant they are.

Lucky for me, on that site you can opt to leave and it deletes all your posts.

This is another long one, yes, I know, longwinded, but now you guys have the facts, David might want to move this to a new thread, what is the responsibility of the
flooring
professionals to research, learn, attend industry training and have experience before posting nonsense on the internet forums for all to read? What is the responsibility of
the
sites moderators and owners to police and reject such erroneous postings.

12/10/2008
8:44:09 PM 

And I do not understand why you felt that you had to close up and leave. After all you were incognito. It's not like it was obviously Selva Lee Tucker. ?????

b

12/10/2008
9:27:44 PM 

quote:

---

Mr. Obssessed ONE!
if I walk thru trash, I will smell like
trash,
if I step in dog mess, I will smell like
it,
if I associate with people who are
idiots then, people will think I am
just like them and 99% of obtaining
business to support myself is the
perception I am professional, behave
professionally, and associate myself
with professionals who have
KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING
of the KNOWLEDGE!

What profit is there for me to
continuously exposed and risk how I
support myself at my age? Its not
like I am going to find a new job or a
new career now at this stage. It is
this until I die or hit the lotto.

So, I should loose everything I have
for????? what profit does it mean for
me to expose myself to that kind of
behavior and potential loss of
income or career?

You know, over the years I have lost
a lot for exposing myself posting to
try to help people. My competitors
have made sure it was known to
everyone they could I was trying to
help educate installers and give them
the tools to not be taken advantage
of by the mills and crooked
inspectors, so, when is it my turn
not to take the hit? I have lost so
much work and I don't see anybody,
and I do not want that, passing the
hat around for me. No, I am not
crying in my beer, I am stating what
should be easy to see, as an installer,
anything you post will stay with you
and not affect your obtaining work,
so, after all these years, and all the
lost work which equals money, I am
suppose to help support that site?
How many years of posting Stephen
do I have to do?

And you say I am running and
hiding?
Shame on you.

---

12/11/2008
11:11:40 AM 

Let us get back to the internet sales. I understand that the mills don't want to do business with unscrupoulous people on the internet but some of the store fronts are just as bad. Yet when installers like myself that don't have a store front can not buy from the mills but yet they still do business with the
e-dealers. We are honest and we give the customer the best p[roduct and installation offered in the business. What is the answer for this?

12/11/2008
5:11:04 PM 

Ain't gonna be no mom and pop B&M stores left pretty soon.

I wonder if I could partner up with Lowes?

Lee, start a new thread, just cut and paste that grumpy ole post of yours and I will too. ha ha