9/26/2008
5:42:26 PM 

It really does not make me any difference who does it!

Just as long as it gets done!! BUT that is the problem, no one feels it is their responsibility, so NO ONE does it. As an industry we are left with multitudes of half-trained installers.

Quite frankly, it surprises me that we get the type of installs we do with as little training as is given. Many installers do genuinely try to do a good job, and if given proper training and a decent pay scale many could and would become great craftsmen.

I am a believer in the skilled mechanic teaching someone else, it was how I saw it done and I guess it is a mindset. I have to say that I personally have turned out three good consiencious craftsmen, two still in it and one dead of a motorcycle accident. Hopefully I have encouraged a number of others to better their work ethic.

9/28/2008
12:18:48 AM 

quote:

---

Who do you feel should be doing the training of the installers in the industry? Should it be the mill's whether it is carpet,wood or any other flooring or should it be the retailers or should the installer do it themself?

FD

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9/28/2008
1:00:02 PM 

THIS QUESTION,
is often asked.

The simple solution, and only solution, for the installation and
yes, cleaning problems facing us is simple:

1. Recognize installation, even simple carpet installation, is a
skill trade and pay accordingly to attract honest, hardworking
smart tradespeople. Currently, only the top skill levels can
demand the fees that are in line with what should be paid.

2. The manufacturers must start to accept responsibility for
their product from the mills to the finished product. I don't
mean stand behind strangers (installers work) but simply say, "if
the installer is not trained and has not passed written and field
testing and must have two years experience in training program
by a recognized training school, not an association but a school,
we will not even send out an inspector or rep to inspect or look
at any complaint.

3. Yes, some retailers will lie about training/certifications of the
installers but the installer must be present for all inspections,
the enduser must confirm he/she was the installer, and, he/she
must provide proof that can be confirmed as to their status.

Now, without that, or something similar, without the force of
the manufacturers behind program to train, accept and
recognition of skill trades, forget it.

However, forget it anyway.
Don't you think the accountants at the big mills haven't figured
out the cost factors involved with any such type of
training/schooling program; and have
determined, the current state of the installation debacle is just
what they want and less costly in the long and short term for
them?

Remember, accountants, tell the "bosses" what needs to be
done, and then, either they do it, or someone else above them
fires them and promotes his assistant to do it.

9/29/2008
12:26:47 AM 

Selva I agree with you that the mills need to inforce the use of certifiyed installers and we need to get back to be known as a trade. With that being said who should pay for it.

FD

9/29/2008
11:29:50 AM 

Basic training should be paid for by the individual. Once you are a journeyman, and have a solid background things get a little different.

If you are union, I feel they have a responsibility to provide some training. Your time-their dime!!

Salary or hourly installer the employer should pay.

Independent installer-if he wants to venture into new products, such as a carpet guy moving to laminate, he should pay.

With all that being said: When a manufacturer comes out with a new product or changes their "product specific" requirements then the manufacturer should provide training. Again Your time-their dime, type of thing.

What would have to be instituted though would be the manufacturers saying to the retailers, "If your installers have not been "product specific" trained then we can not sell you the product. And please spare me the rhetoric that the manufacturers have no control over who sells their product! When was the last time you bought a new Ford from a Chrysler dealer? It won't happen, and by the way a Ford dealer will not stay a Ford dealer unless his mechanics have Ford training and certification. The manufactures WILL pull a dealership for not keeping up on training.

These are some of my opinions.

9/29/2008
5:07:47 PM 

I think Roland, Roger and Lee should have to train everyone.

9/29/2008
9:19:53 PM 

Roland, some are untrainable!!

9/29/2008
11:20:10 PM 

Hi guys. I've been enjoying your posts here for months and thought i would chime in on this one as it is a topic i have spent many hours thinking about.

I'd like to see manufacturers and many of the schools and organizations take a major technological step forward and start using live internet classes for there trainings. Though you could not teach everything online, and many of the things we do require hands on applications. Doing this would allow manufacturers to teach large groups without most of the expenses incurred to the attendees. I don't know if any of you have taken online courses with live instruction but i found it to be very beneficial. And there were less communication issues than i thought there might be upon hearing the idea.

There would be limitations though i think they could be worked around if someone put the time and energy into putting a program like this together.

9/30/2008
10:00:37 AM 

Thats a good idea Scott. Roger is correct, I have taken an online class but it was not really for installation purposes. I could see it being very beneficialin video form.

I would have liked a copy of that as well. I actually emailed the person in charge and she said sshe would get one to me. That was many moons ago.
I also tried copying it, it no worky.

9/30/2008
8:31:54 PM 

Hear that Lee? Remember Fred wanted to start that years ago. It's just waiting for someone like you/