| Author | Message |
Roland Thompson 
Posts: 281
Since: 2/27/2008
|  5/24/2008 2:50:46 PM 
You as an inspector do you feel the installer has the right to be there during the inspection? If no why not?
FD
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John Draper
Posts: 76
Since: 10/29/2007
| 5/24/2008 8:42:21 PM
I don't need to know why he did this or that, the floor will tell the story
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 5/24/2008 11:06:38 PM
Hi Roland,
I don't care if the installer is there, or not. I don't care who is there.
I'm still not allowed to discuss findings. I do enjoy hearing the installers side of the story.
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 5/24/2008 11:32:48 PM
Ray it was not my fault!!! the sun was shining brightly threw the window and I could not see. If the customer would of had shades on that window this would of never happen in the first place.
Ray I’ll buy you lunch if your on my side.
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Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 5/25/2008 11:50:15 AM
quote:
You as an inspector do you feel the installer has the
right to be there during the inspection? If no why not?
FD
It is his work, sooner or later, if he feels he did nothing wrong, will
have it inspected and sooner or later, the inspector will have to
defend his report, he has the right to confront his accuser.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 5/25/2008 2:22:19 PM
quote:
Ray it was not my fault!!! the sun was shining brightly threw the window and I could not see. If the customer would of had shades on that window this would of never happen in the first place.
Ray I’ll buy you lunch if your on my side.
I agree with you Darian, but I want Dinner, not lunch !!
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 5/25/2008 2:26:21 PM
Why would I what to be at the inspection? If there was a problem with my job the customer has contacted me and I know if I done something wrong or not. The reason why so many fear the inspectors is because there like policemen and if you get caught speeding your going to get a fine. Now If the inspector is not looking for the truth. Why would I wont him to know my defense strategies? So he can twist them in to what ever way he likes I don't think so. If you need help find a inspector you feel conformable with. The judge is the one you need to convinces not the inspector.
Last Edited 5/25/2008
2:29:13 PM
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Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 5/25/2008 3:20:06 PM
lets do a "what if"...
the installer sees foreign yarn down the length,
he does the right thing, calls back to the store.
the retailer tells him to go ahead, install it.
He does as the contractor told him. The retailer contacts his
sales rep, who says, no problem...he turns in a claim. Now, at
this point, the sales rep only turns in a claim and does not
inform the claims offices to inform the inspector, that the
installer did everything "by the book"...
The inspector, unaware of these events, and a mill route
inspector, writes up a report stating the foreign yarn is a "visible
defect that should not have been installed, therefore, this is an
installation concern".
I have read reports like that where the installer did everything he
was supposed to have done when he saw a visible defect that he
reported.
If you had gotten burned once like that, where it cost you
valuable time, and the retailer valuable time, gas driving out
there, and delayed replacement of the carpet, as should have
been done....would you want to avoid all that hassle and make
sure the inspector is told everything in the beginning to avoid
the hassles?
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 5/25/2008 5:12:50 PM
Inspectors just write down what they see on the site.
If they see a foreign yarn, streak, or defect;; that is what they report.
Inspectors are "field Techs" and do not make policy. We don't make determinations concerning the outcome of the complaint.
I do know that visible flaws are negotiated to a lower cost rather than be replaced. Why replace good material just because it has some little visual problem?
I do agree that there are those who don't understand defects such as we are seeing in Engineered Hardwood right now, and for the past three years.
Don't let anybody tell you any different:::::::::::::::::::::: Delamination and open splits are Defects !! There is nothing on site that can cause an engineered/laminated wood floor to delaminate or split unless it is a defect... even flooding one time should only cause minimum delaminaton and only along the edges.
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 5/25/2008 5:44:59 PM
I think the right thing to do here is send it back pay the installer for saving you all the headaches and extra cost involved. I have sent so much carpet back that they look at it a little closer before sending it to me.
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Roger Gerber
Posts: 327
Since: 3/17/2008
| 5/25/2008 7:51:33 PM
I will give a little different 'take' on this. If everyone documented what took place and filed things in writing a lot of problems would melt away. Did the installer tell the dealer give me an e-mail to the effect "go ahead", have your e-mail pushed to your cell phone, when the e-mail comes continue the install. Did the dealer have the mill rep or claims person e-mail him to "go ahead". Document, document, CYA, whatever you want to call it preserve the paper trail. You see in the world that we live in, it is not always the person that is right who wins a claim, but it is the one you has the most documentation! 
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Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 5/26/2008 12:38:21 AM
Roger, that is a good point,,,,
I just like to see the good guys win,
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 5/26/2008 10:00:23 AM
Then the REAL side of the story.
Often, manufacturers pay labor for replacements and the Dealer keeps it telling the installer he is responsible.
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Roland Thompson
Posts: 281
Since: 2/27/2008
| 5/26/2008 12:32:12 PM
I also feel that as an installer if you have done everything right you should not need to be there. But like Selva said there are inspectors out there that are yes men for the mills and will try and always find a way to blame the installer. I always document everything with photos and e-mails when I know I am told to go ahead with something I feel is wrong.
Installers get to know the inspectors in your area and know witch one is honest. If it is the one in my area that is the yes man you might want to know this. I have went up against him a few times for installers that I know do things by the book and he has tried to blame them, have never lost proving him wrong. He never go's to any of the training that is put on in the area like the other one does.
FD
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David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 5/26/2008 5:27:17 PM
If everyone involved exercised a degree of integrity, responsibility would naturally fall to the right party.
I agree with the record keeping suggestion. If everything is carefully documented, then there would be absolutely no reason for the installer to be present. If implicated and blamed, all he/she would need do is provide this documentation.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 5/26/2008 10:22:05 PM
We pass judgment on a flooring material, not the people involved.
The dealer may have said "lay it anyway" and this means nothing to us except we add that statement to our "history of statements" made by those present.
However; if the defect is visible and the material should not have been installed;;; that is the report. The rest of this is politics between the dealer and installer. So yes, the installer would be wise to document his findings.
But the safest thing to do is not install visibly flawed material without written approval or written directions. Verbal approval is no good.
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