New York—As the issue of moisture in concrete and how it affects the flooring trade continues to grow, those who recognize its importance are trying to create a dialogue between industries in order to solve this complex, multi-layered problem. By recently sponsoring a seminar on the subject titled, “Moisture In Concrete,” the Greater New York Floor Coverers Association/Industry Promotional Fund is one of the organizations taking a leading role on this matter. Taking place at the Helmsley Hotel here before a standing room only audience of designers, architects, flooring contractors and retailers, the program was designed to answer questions concerning the proper conditions for the installation of floor coverings over concrete subfloors.

As the event unfolded, it was evident the meeting was more than just an educational opportunity to learn about the issue, but also a session where those attending could vent their frustrations on the subject as well. Issues such as fast-track construction, moisture testing, adhesives, epoxies and how the different industries can better work together to help solve the concrete moisture problem all were addressed at the meeting. “For the flooring covering trade, the concrete moisture issue is crucial as it how it affects the quality and long-term sustainability of the installation of our product,” said David Meberg of Consolidated Carpet Trade Work-room in New York and president of the association.

“The nature of fast-track construction has probably caused more of a problem regarding this issue than anything else we run into,” said panelist Christopher Capobianco, technical support manager, Toli International, representing the resilient flooring category. “The concrete and flooring industries are beginning to talk to each other regarding this issue. We’re getting to know each other.” Panelist Thomas Ruttura, president of Ruttura & Sons Construction Co., who had just attended a concrete moisture seminar in Monterey, Calif., with 150 fellow concrete contractors from around the country, agreed with Capobianco that a dialogue between industries is needed. He also noted how the moisture issue is related to other industry problems.

“We are more concerned about this issue from a liability standpoint than anything else. The buzzword, mold, has literally taken a lot of the insurance companies out of the industry in California. And this vapor problem is definitely going to become a mold problem. “The problem is not how we lay concrete or how it reacts,” Ruttura explained to attendees, “the problem is these schedules and how one person says one thing and another person saying another. We don’t talk to each other. “This is probably the first opportunity I’ve had to sit down with a group of flooring contractors in my whole career,” he added. “I never get to see you and you probably put a lot of floor covering on top of my subfloors. We in the concrete industry recognize the problem and would like to work with you on it.

“We know it takes a certain amount of time for water to evaporate,” Ruttura continued. “The problem is, we are pouring a floor in the dead of winter before the buildings are up and completed, before there are roofs on the building. And, generally, you guys are coming in and installing the floors a week or two before the roof is up and the building is done.” “The problem we face is real; it is nothing new,” said panelist Larry Press, an expert in the flooring adhesives field and director of technical services for Para-Chem. “At this point in time, the key word is money. I know of a retail electronic outfit who, from the day it breaks ground to the time it wants to be selling on the floor, has a 150-day limit. There is no way you can install floor covering 150 days later and anticipate that the floor is going to be ready.”

In his presentation, Press went on to discuss the different types of problems inherent with concrete moisture and flooring adhesives, and some of the different types of tests that are available to those in the industry. “Mold, mildew and fungal growth are also primary concerns,” he explained. “I hope to release some information on this as well as the use of moisture reduction systems in the near future; it may upset some people in the adhesive industry. “We are trying to come up with floor covering adhesive standards,” Press said. “I’ve been working on this for about six years and have been met with great reluctance because no one wants to admit there is a problem because in admitting so, they are afraid there will be liability issues. It’s a precarious situation.”

The different types of tests and who should be doing them was also addressed. “I don’t think anybody tests for concrete moisture correctly; maybe just one or two people in the country,” said Ruttura. “It takes anywhere from 90 to 120 days to take that water out. As an industry, we are moving in the direction of not having a vapor barrier underneath the concrete because that makes it more difficult for the concrete to dry. We are starting to think more like you people in the flooring industry.”

The members of the panel also chimed in on the recently released Industry White Paper on moisture emission testing, sponsored by the World Floor Covering Association ( WFCA) and endorsed by several flooring associations ( FCNews, Sept. 3/10, 2001). “What the paper is saying is,” said Capobianco, “people in the floor covering business are not concrete experts and that people who are experts either in concrete or in testing should be the ones doing the testing. In theory, that’s a great idea. Many people here in the flooring industry would probably agree with that, and many people here who are independent inspectors or consultants who do moisture testing love this.

“When we get to the point when there are enough people with experience in moisture testing and who perform the test accurately,” he explained, “then maybe we can get to that point. However, this may not happen for a while. Until then, the people in the flooring industry still need to understand the test, how it is done and to be able to do it but they should be paid to do it; it should be a stipulation in their contract. “With that said, who should do the testing?” Capobianco continued. “Ideally, someone independent who is good at doing it would do the test. Then, the people who make up the team, which is all of us—architects, designers, flooring contractors, flooring manufacturers, concrete contractors—would make the decision based on guidelines for that particular project.

Right now, the flooring industry is stuck between a rock and a hard place.” “The White Paper is a positive step forward,” said Press. “What I am concerned with is, where it says to hire someone who is competent. Who determines who is necessarily competent?” Because the concrete moisture issue affects so many people in various industries, the seminar attracted many designers as well as flooring professionals. “When we get involved in installations with a new building or a building that has been so renovated that the flooring slab is a concern,” said Robert Krone, president of WPG Design Group, “it is a very critical issue.

“A symposium like this is crucial,” he explained. “There needs to be both communication as well as an understanding between the many professionals involved in a project starting with the designers, architects, flooring contractors, and concrete contractors. Early coordination within a team is paramount in this situation as it is in much of the building process. “Having each different professional involved in the process have a good understanding of what the needs of the others are on team is important so that,” Krane concluded, “we, as architects and designers, concrete or flooring contractors don’t go into the job with certain assumptions of what to expect or what we expect the other trades to be doing only to uncover ugly surprises.”