| Author | Message |
Barry Carlton 
Posts: 162
Since: 6/30/2008
|  7/1/2008 11:34:01 PM 
quote:
Certification should be a free test. After 35 years in this business, why should I pay someone a couple thousand dollars for a piece of paper. Besides, being certified doesn't mean they are not going to take shortcuts on the job. We have all seen lousy certified auto mechanics, plumbers, electricians, etc.
I agree that the certifiations should not cost 1-2 thousand dollars. I also think the certifications should be faily difficult to pass. And be pass fail. After all they are supposed to certify that you ALREADY know how to install the product properly.
They should not be schools. Schools SHOULD cost more.
I think the Forbo program is a fairly good model. They give pointers that are good to know, but you are expected to have the skills and experience to pass. They have a pass rate of approx. 15 percent on the first attempt.
But then I've been told by many that I am completely 'certifiable'
barry
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Michael Masters
Posts: 5
Since: 3/23/2008
| 7/4/2008 3:09:24 AM
Who in the hell is going to certify the installers? It can't be any of the current "certification" - I use that loosely -bodies. Hell thay can't even agree amongst themselves the "correct" way to do different installation procedures! When there is a national accredited firm doing the certs, I will be the first to sign up. But the procedures must be agreed upon and stuck to and taught this way and every installer do the instalation this way. If not what is the good of certifications? Nothing but putting money in the CFI's of the world. Needs to be uniform, accredited, and licenced like plummers, electricians, etc.
I am not saying installer A's installation techniques are "wrong", But his should match everyone elses so there is uniformity. There should be training schools and apprenticeship programs, as well as continued education of so many hrs per yrear.
I applaude the Daris Mulkin's of the world who are here to better the industry, but it will take an organization of the Darises in the world to agree on the best way to perform an installation, write it down, and teach it without bias from seaming tape manufacturers, or carpet manufacturers, etc. just to appease them and put money in peoples pockets like Jimmy d. Walker does.
ps i do not stop here often but will try to check back .
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Rusty Baker
Posts: 111
Since: 6/7/2008
| 7/4/2008 11:01:23 AM
I have the utmost respect for Daris and the other CFI installers I have met on the various boards. But having installed in KC from 1973 to 1993, I can tell you it is no coincidence that most of the installers in that area don't belong to CFI.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 7/4/2008 12:41:01 PM
Most installers EVERYWHERE do not belong to CFI, or any other organization.
I'm thinking it will always be this way.
I appreciate all CFI and the Installation Organizations have done to improve workmanship and self-esteem/self-respect of the Installers.
Without quality craftsman, there is no flooring industry.
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Stephen Perrera
Posts: 823
Since: 5/27/2008
| 7/4/2008 5:27:07 PM
I'd just like to know if Mr. Masters has ever tried getting certified...witnessed a certification...anything?
I have my issues with them but I don't think you should knock it if you ain't tried it.
Like am old wise man said...I like the idea but not the result. Or something like that.
The idea of an association to me is that it sticks up for the installers and tries to raise awareness of the installers plight having been taken advantage of by retailers and some manufactures for eons along with pitiful pay and benefits.
Education is great but it stops short of accomplishing that "association" in terms of pay and getting the mills to insist that certified installation will be needed for warranty purposes. Hell the crapet cleaners got what they wanted. I guess you can't bitte the hand that feeds your pockets huh?
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 7/4/2008 7:58:20 PM
Are there not "Certified" Pergo installers?
Are Manufacturers teaching/training and giving certs. on specific products and carpet with commercial backings?
Maybe that is one way?
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Michael Masters
Posts: 5
Since: 3/23/2008
| 7/6/2008 1:03:27 AM
NO, I have never tried to get CFI certified, nor have I witnessed a cert. Do you not pass a written test, then the next day pass a skills test?
It is a good idea, and I praise the efforts of the skilled who help folks learn.
CFI needs a person who truly wants to make a difference and not a buck as a leader if it is to be a truly reputable and widespread.
If I had the noble idea of a CFI, had folks working for me to make it happen, and because of this got other opportunities, I would want to use that to help the ones that help me, and further the CFI.
Last Edited 7/6/2008
1:11:46 AM
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John Draper
Posts: 76
Since: 10/29/2007
| 7/6/2008 10:16:07 AM
I'm a C.F.I. Master,Pergo and Armstrong certified but in looking for work it does not help. I have not did the last C.F.I. test becaues of $ I just can't do it. I like helpping installer at certification but I can't tell them that they will get more by being certified and if you spend that much you like to make more. But they will be better installer
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Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 7/6/2008 6:39:02 PM
I got all kinds of "Sir - tif - I - Cants" but i be so dumb and stupid
sometimes,,,
done every kind of floor but don't know it all,
and sometimes, I wish I could hit the lotto so I could say "fornicate
it all" and build a house with dirt floors.
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lindalockwood
Posts: 181
Since: 2/25/2008
| 7/6/2008 6:53:23 PM
It sounds like you're a true professional John. It's not about the number of certs you obtain, it's how you apply the knowledge gained from the training and experience. Keep pluggin'
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 7/6/2008 7:17:46 PM
Here is what I know:
I receive calls from consumer asking for an inspection. We give them a fee and 7 out of 10 hang up the phone after hearing the fee.
But I concentrate on the THREE using my services and willing to pay my fee. Let the others work cheap.
I would rather perform one inspection for a high fee than 3 or 4 at 1/4th the price. Then I can take my time to do a complete inspection and a professional report.
I suppose installations are no different??
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John Draper
Posts: 76
Since: 10/29/2007
| 7/6/2008 7:56:16 PM
I love doing my job but I may not have my house if thing get any worse
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Barry Carlton
Posts: 162
Since: 6/30/2008
| 7/7/2008 7:03:37 PM
In keeping with the topic title, I do think ALL installers should be certified.....and required to keep up with current developments through recertifications. The industry has come a long way since the 70's and 80's when I started, but has a long way to go.
I have a friend in NZ who is a strong proponent or us 'older' mechanics teaching younger ones to be educated craftsmen. In so doing instilling our goals and ethics in them.
Some of us have done this and probably still are.
This should be a focus and priority for us if possible. In so being, oru proteges would continue their own education and continue to pass on the same ethics and qualities to others.
The exponential effect could be surprising.
barry
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