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| | | Author | Message | Jim Ryan 
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
|  3/12/2008 2:29:52 PM 
Everything ya'll say here is under the most critical scrutiny. If you are unsure of something, my phone number is there to use if you want to run it by me, before it goes on the board.
However, before you contact me, write down all you want to say and go back at least 3 times, re-reading it out loud and refining every word.
Once you do that, I'll tell you what I think and hopefully, we won't make ourselves look bad and at the same time, maybe help others.
If not me, then I'm sure David would help or take your pick.
No one knows it all, but many are taught things they shouldn't be and instead of saying such, say nothing.
Asking questions is good, but answering them is a whole lot harder.
There may be but a few that speak on this board, but there may be even a few more listening.
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| Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/12/2008 7:03:56 PM
Hi Jim,
I think it's ok to post and post with incorrect information. We can discuss, debate, copy/paste either a Standard or Manufacturer Statement to help the individual who may be incorrect in his thinking.
It's ok to be incorrect or wrong, as learning comes from asking and posting.
Nobody is wrong about anything they post as we are here to share and help others. If that is not the purpose;;; what is the purpose?
x
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/12/2008 8:39:52 PM
quote:
Hi Jim,
I think it's ok to post and post with incorrect information. We can discuss, debate, copy/paste either a Standard or Manufacturer Statement to help the individual who may be incorrect in his thinking.
It's ok to be incorrect or wrong, as learning comes from asking and posting.
Nobody is wrong about anything they post as we are here to share and help others. If that is not the purpose;;; what is the purpose?
x
It seems that for me, too many years on the floor, with everything riding on the line at every moment, I don't leave much room for mistakes, because not much was left for me.
There seems no room when inspectors visit the jobs. 
It seems you spoke of making 1800 or more for inspecting one big commercial job. If you make a mistake, who pays and is anyone watching ya'll?
We are hard demanding men of ourselves Ray and if ya ain't one of the best, I guess they can afford mistakes.
I must say all of us make mistakes, but we have to be able to correct them. That's the definition of a mechanic.
We are hard men and the industry allows no leeway for installers.
In my everyday life, I used a few drinks each nite to slow the pace just enough to allow for some laughter with my daughter and ex wives. We couldn't afford much more than the basics on an installers pay--after paying everything else.
I could go on for quite a while, but no need. I'm just trying to show you that no quarter is allowed installers, what makes you think we will allow it of those that have power over us?
No offense Ray, it's just the nature of the beast. Outside this trade, I laugh and smile, while getting along with people in person, but in here, it's nothing but hard.
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| Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/12/2008 8:56:42 PM
quote:
It seems that for me, too many years on the floor, with everything riding on the line at every moment, I don't leave much room for mistakes, because not much was left for me.
There seems no room when inspectors visit the jobs.
It seems you spoke of making 1800 or more for inspecting one big commercial job. If you make a mistake, who pays and is anyone watching ya'll?
We are hard demanding men of ourselves Ray and if ya ain't one of the best, I guess they can afford mistakes.
I must say all of us make mistakes, but we have to be able to correct them. That's the definition of a mechanic.
We are hard men and the industry allows no leeway for installers.
In my everyday life, I used a few drinks each nite to slow the pace just enough to allow for some laughter with my daughter and ex wives. We couldn't afford much more than the basics on an installers pay--after paying everything else.
I could go on for quite a while, but no need. I'm just trying to show you that no quarter is allowed installers, what makes you think we will allow it of those that have power over us?
No offense Ray, it's just the nature of the beast. Outside this trade, I laugh and smile, while getting along with people in person, but in here, it's nothing but hard.
There seems to be a problem. And the problem is that Inspectors do not deal with opinions.
They only write down what they see and reference what they see to an Industry Standard and the Standard points to the responsible party.
For example: I see raveling at a seam. I check for sealer. No sealer found by naked eye or U.V. Light. Standard says there is to be sealer.
Complaint is related to lack of sealer placement on seam edges as outlined in CRI-104/105.
This is all we do. We have to believe our eyes and we have to reference what we see to either Industry Standard or Manufacturer Installation specifications...
That's all there is to it.
What are we supposed to do? Are we supposed to say we saw seale when we did not?
x
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/12/2008 9:01:12 PM
quote:
There seems to be a problem. And the problem is that Inspectors do not deal with opinions.
They only write down what they see and reference what they see to an Industry Standard and the Standard points to the responsible party.
For example: I see raveling at a seam. I check for sealer. No sealer found by naked eye or U.V. Light. Standard says there is to be sealer.
Complaint is related to lack of sealer placement on seam edges as outlined in CRI-104/105.
This is all we do. We have to believe our eyes and we have to reference what we see to either Industry Standard or Manufacturer Installation specifications...
That's all there is to it.
What are we supposed to do? Are we supposed to say we saw seale when we did not?
x
Yes Ray, we know that and that the problem. The responsible party cannot be sued at every turn for all it does wrong, because installers will never make enough to hold them accountable.
That's just the way it is Ray. Inspectors can have no room for empathy, even if it isn't the installers fault. Black lines at seams are never our fault, but we are blamed for them. That's just one.
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| Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/12/2008 9:04:18 PM
Here comes that Black Line thing again.
What black lines have you seen Jim?
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/12/2008 9:08:02 PM
quote:
Here comes that Black Line thing again.
What black lines have you seen Jim?
I was very specific before and obviously you didn't pay attention, because now you think I deserve your sarcasam--or at least that's what your words say to me.
Maybe you've noticed, but it is very rare for me to use such sarcasam. I am right straight up, in your face or on your side.
We are hard men afterall.
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| Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/12/2008 9:45:49 PM
quote:
I was very specific before and obviously you didn't pay attention, because now you think I deserve your sarcasam--or at least that's what your words say to me.
Maybe you've noticed, but it is very rare for me to use such sarcasam. I am right straight up, in your face or on your side.
We are hard men afterall.
I'm not being sarcastic.
Please describe these darned black lines I've not seen.
I've seen no Black Colored Lines at seams.
I've seen adhesive contamination.
I've seen Sealer Contamination.
I have not seen any black lines.
I did not read a post where you explained black lines ...
and for future reference. I don't do sarcasm on this site.....
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/12/2008 10:38:56 PM
Here comes that Black Line thing again.
What black lines have you seen Jim?
If you hadn't read my post on black lines, why did you say, here comes that black line thing again.
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| Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/12/2008 11:17:40 PM
Perry and Darian made mention of it in the thread labeled "Black Line".
I'm sorry if I missed your post on the subject.
Last Edited 3/12/2008
11:20:29 PM
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Transmitted: 5/12/2026
12:48:45 PM
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