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| | | Author | Message | Jim Ryan 
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
|  3/11/2008 11:11:09 PM 
On ALL flatter carpets, you are ALWAYS going to see, seam profiling. IT CANNOT be stopped. On flatter carpets, matching longer seams are going to naturally show color variances alot more than all other carpets.
I can prove in any court in the country, exactly what I'm saying.
I think you being an inspector Ray should help to spread a little light on this.
All carpets vary in color at least,--from one side of the panel to the other--or one side of the roll to the other, as well as one end to the other.
EVERYTIME you place the left side of a panel next to the right side on another panel, you will see a variance, it's just how much.
With plushes and high-lows or patterns, not near as much as with the flatter carpets. SOME high-lows that don't have much height variances will take on the characteristics of flatter carpets, just as many berbers.
If you'd like, I will prove all I say in front of everybody.
However, I get to pick the rolls, not the mills, because if the mills want, they can do much better on color, pattern and everything.
Last Edited 3/12/2008
7:07:20 AM
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/12/2008 7:03:12 AM
The mills will know these things by the amount of calls on such, what kinds of carpets---flatter in nature and be able to see why, if they wanted too.
Maybe the mills are just as culpable or even more than inspectors ---AND, they should understand these things better than all others,--unless they are either hiding these things or they have incompetant people going over the data--or worse, none at all.
Why do the mills have the CRI?
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/12/2008 7:13:00 AM
9/10THS OF THE installers will never know these things, but if you don't correct this, you will be nothing more than theives. Of course if men on-line see this and understand it, all they have to do is challenge you and the inspectors to prove you can do better in a court of law and you cannot, you lose a lot of time, money and the courts will have to rule your findings as an organization as incompetant or just plain ignorant.
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| Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/12/2008 7:22:47 AM
There are written standards for seam placement.
AND there is one tool out there that can flatten seams as well as an installation repair method to flatten seams.
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/12/2008 8:07:04 AM
quote:
There are written standards for seam placement.
AND there is one tool out there that can flatten seams as well as an installation repair method to flatten seams.
In a 20 ft wide room, he has little choice, unless you want him to put the seams in the other direction and you did say there was a double glass door at one end--aye? You would also now have at least 2 seams,--eh? What happens when low light hits the area and there is no proof that the color variance will be different, unless someone cares to prove it and that's gonna take some work. Just saying something works in one place, doesn't mean it will work in all places, I think we all know that.
It will depend on light and shadow from all directions and change through-out the day and with home lighting at night, the possibilities are endless.
How long was that room? You did say it was 20 feet wide.
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| Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/12/2008 8:23:02 AM
Like i said earlier: There is no place to put this seam.
The seam was peaked.
One thing I did not tell you is that this is the second installation, not the first... They moved the seam over 4' on the second installation.
They did not make the seam on a board.
There is ledging and overlapping.
There is a tool I saw in Dalton that flattens seams... You place this machine over the seam and move it down the seam... It flattens the seam..
This site is a difficult site for carpet seam placement..
x
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| Roland Thompson
Posts: 281
Since: 2/27/2008
| 3/12/2008 8:39:29 AM
Not all carpets will have a side to side issue,it all depends on the dying sytem used. What dying methods will not have an issue and why?
FD
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/12/2008 12:05:35 PM
quote:
Like i said earlier: There is no place to put this seam.
The seam was peaked.
One thing I did not tell you is that this is the second installation, not the first... They moved the seam over 4' on the second installation.
They did not make the seam on a board.
There is ledging and overlapping.
There is a tool I saw in Dalton that flattens seams... You place this machine over the seam and move it down the seam... It flattens the seam..
This site is a difficult site for carpet seam placement..
x
What would a lawyer say? What would a judge say? What would a top of the line carpet installer say?
What would an opposing inspector say in court?
I'll give you first shot and take off the kid gloves, because a court of law shure would.
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/12/2008 1:31:10 PM
Ray said,--Like i said earlier: There is no place to put this seam.
Jim Says,--So you blamed the installer.
Ray said,--The seam was peaked.
Jim says,--you said origionally that it was peaked or profiling.
Ray said,--One thing I did not tell you is that this is the second installation, not the first... They moved the seam over 4' on the second installation.
Jim Says,--Then how could everyone involved be so ignorant and now blame the installer?
Ray says,--They did not make the seam on a board.
There is ledging and overlapping.
Jim Says,--How do you know they didn't make it on a board? You never once through all the posts on the other thread, said that and more, above???
You lose all credibility when you do such Ray, it would be advisable to never do that again.
Ray says,--There is a tool I saw in Dalton that flattens seams... You place this machine over the seam and move it down the seam... It flattens the seam..
Jim Says--The only way for a machine to do such, is to crush the living begeebers out of the seam area, smashing any overlaps into one another and crushing the heck out of the seam glue. Do you have any idea how much force that takes? I think you should.
Ray says,--This site is a difficult site for carpet seam placement..
Everyone had a say, everyone is at fault.
Now consider. If an installer was not blamed for the first replacement, they should have had a very good look at his work and been satisfied to let him do the work a second time.
From what I saw in the pics and you not once mentioned how lousy a seam it was in the other thread and yet, now you claim all these things.
Do you really think I-WE are all so dang stupid?
Quit treating US like idiots.
Last Edited 3/12/2008
2:00:32 PM
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| Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/12/2008 1:58:00 PM
I hate doing this.
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| David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 3/12/2008 2:49:34 PM
quote:
I hate doing this.
What I have noticed in life (51 years) is that passion can sometimes cloud judgement. Notice Jim I said sometimes.
As an installer, you no doubt have passion for installers, and this shows in your posts. This is not a good thing or a bad thing.
Ray, on the other hand, as an inspector, must look objectively (no passion, for that would be subjective) at each individual case, and determine who, if any, is at fault. By examining every possible angle and comparing what was done (or not done) to industry standards and guidelines, he must render judgement.
To do this, Ray pulls from a vast range of personal experience as an installer, retailer and anything else he has done in our industry during his 60 some-odd years on this earth.
To do so objectively means that he neither favors the installer, nor the manufacturer or even the retailer, but rather taps all of his accumulated resources and experience, and renders an unbiased and fair judgement based on known facts.
None of us is infallible Jim (Ray also makes mistakes), so instead of being critical of his renderings and judgement, simply accept them as coming from his perspective as a certified and professional Inspector with tons of experience.
It's OK if you don't agree with him... but always respect him.
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| Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/12/2008 7:00:59 PM
Look...
this thread was intended to show the windows in a room, and the photo showed all those windows.
Those windows reflected light across the seam located near center of the room and right-smack-dab- in the middle of the use area...
The purpose was to display the windows that nobody can get away from. This was one of those rooms where there is just no good seam placement.. that is all..
x
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Transmitted: 5/12/2026
11:05:36 AM
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