| Author | Message |
Roger Gerber 
Posts: 327
Since: 3/17/2008
|  3/28/2008 4:30:09 PM
To all, I certainly am not angry, just confused. Where is CRI 105 wrong? You say everyone knows?
As to holding up in court, I guess it depends on perspective. No, you will not get a judgement against CRI if you say you met all the requirements of CRI 105 or 104, BUT if you do not and you get taken to court and it is proven that you did not stretch to their standards you will have a judgement issued against you. I have seen it happen, the installer in small claims court said "What is CRI 105?". The judge awarded the homeowner $1500 to replace his carpet.
Yes I agree just having one room illustrations or diagrams is pretty dumb, but using these it is very easy to adapt to odd shaped rooms or multiple room layouts. That is what made installing enjoyable for me, the challenge on a daily basis. But to condemn CRI totally just because they do not address your needs is short sighted in my opinion. They have done a lot of good for the industry in so many ways.
Last Edited 3/28/2008
7:12:06 PM
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/28/2008 6:29:05 PM
quote:
To all, I certainly am not angry, just confused. Where is CRI 105 wrong? You say everyone knows?
As to holding up in court, I guess it depends on perspective. No, you will not get a judgement against CRI if you say you met all the requirements of CRI 105 or 104, BUT if you do not and you get taken to court and it is proven that you did not stretch to their standards you will have a judgement issued against you. I have seen it happen, the installer in small claims court said "What is CRI 105?". The judge awarded the homeowner $1500 to replace his carpet.
Yes I agree just having one room illustrations or diagrams is pretty dumb, but using these it is very easy to adapt to odd shaped rooms or multiple room layouts. That is what made installing enjoyable for me was the challenge on a daily basis. But to condemn CRI totally just because they do not address your needs is short sighted in my opinion. The have done a lot of good for the industry in so many ways.
Do you see anything wrong with the diagram that David posted?
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/28/2008 6:40:47 PM
quote:
For the benefit of all, here is the diagram in question referenced by Jim. Please feel free to discuss.
Look at the diagram and tell us what is wrong, if you please. If no one can figure it out--even after I have complained about it over and over again, I'll be happy to point it out.
Shall I wait one hour, one day or one week for an answer?
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Roger Gerber
Posts: 327
Since: 3/17/2008
| 3/28/2008 6:44:11 PM
Your choice, it is what it is.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/28/2008 7:00:58 PM
quote:
Your choice, it is what it is.
If you are unable to speak on my level, why not just remain silent?
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David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 3/28/2008 7:03:12 PM
quote:
If you are unable to speak on my level, why not just remain silent?
The ball seems to be in your court, Jim. You were the one to criticize CRI and the diagram I posted. Please tell us what your issue is with it.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/28/2008 7:05:27 PM
quote:
The ball seems to be in your court, Jim. You were the one to criticize CRI and the diagram I posted. Please tell us what your issue is with it.
Sure David. Look at figure one in the diagram and there you will find a huge mistake.
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Roger Gerber
Posts: 327
Since: 3/17/2008
| 3/28/2008 7:19:00 PM
quote:
Sure David. Look at figure one in the diagram and there you will find a huge mistake.
In what way? I am dead serious.
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David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 3/28/2008 7:21:12 PM
quote:
In what way? I am dead serious.
I am waiting for Jim to tell me, Roger. I only see in the diagram a starting point for stretching in step 1.
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David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 3/28/2008 7:24:48 PM
Jim,
No one on this board will deny that there might be a better way to approach a stretch-in than what CRI is showing. That said, might their way work also?
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/28/2008 7:28:35 PM
In the first step, the figure tells the installers to set the whole corner. Installers know better than that or at least they should.
Installers should set the first 3 to 4 feet of the bottom wall and never set the 3 feet on the wall the door is on, before they power to the opposing 3 or 4 feet of wall, opposing the first 4 foot set wall.
Now any first year installer should know that, but obviously all the lines on that page must have installers not seeing it.
The reasoning is very simple once I told you that, just as any first year installer would know.
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David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 3/28/2008 7:32:23 PM
quote:
In the first step, the figure tells the installers to set the whole corner. Installers know better than that or at least they should.
Installers should set the first 3 to 4 feet of the bottom wall and never set the 3 feet on the wall the door is on, before they power to the opposing 3 or 4 feet of wall, opposing the first 4 foot set wall.
Now any first year installer should know that, but obviously all the lines on that page must have installers not seeing it.
The reasoning is very simple once I told you that, just as any first year installer would know.
Now that we know what your issues are with the diagram, we can have some constructive dialogue.
Not being a carpet installer, I'll defer to others on this board to offer their insight.
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Roger Gerber
Posts: 327
Since: 3/17/2008
| 3/28/2008 7:47:56 PM
quote:
In the first step, the figure tells the installers to set the whole corner. Installers know better than that or at least they should.
Installers should set the first 3 to 4 feet of the bottom wall and never set the 3 feet on the wall the door is on, before they power to the opposing 3 or 4 feet of wall, opposing the first 4 foot set wall.
Now any first year installer should know that, but obviously all the lines on that page must have installers not seeing it.
The reasoning is very simple once I told you that, just as any first year installer would know.
What door?
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/28/2008 7:49:08 PM
quote:
Jim,
No one on this board will deny that there might be a better way to approach a stretch-in than what CRI is showing. That said, might their way work also?
No sir, their way is very wrong. Here's exactly why,--once they set the bottom wall, if they set that whole corner and then go to the wall opposing the bottom set wall and power, the pins that are set on the wall the door is on, will restrict that area from stretching and the carpet would twist on the pins on the wall the door is on and stop the stretch from where the set stops on the door wall, back to the first set wall.
According to the diagram and my post, do you understand?
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David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 3/28/2008 7:50:51 PM
quote:
No sir, their way is very wrong. Here's exactly why,--once they set the bottom wall, if they set that whole corner and then go to the wall opposing the bottom set wall and power, the pins that are set on the wall the door is on, will restrict that area from stretching and the carpet would twist on the pins on the wall the door is on and stop the stretch from where the set stops on the door wall, back to the first set wall.
According to the diagram and my post, do you understand?
I am not being difficult Jim, but where is the door?
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/28/2008 8:06:17 PM
quote:
I am not being difficult Jim, but where is the door?
hahahahahahahahaha, that's no fair, I'm gettin old.
Ok, if there was a door, it would be at the top of the A-- set walls.
Ok?
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David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 3/28/2008 8:13:14 PM
quote:
hahahahahahahahaha, that's no fair, I'm gettin old.
Ok, if there was a door, it would be at the top of the A-- set walls.
Ok?
See Jim, the issue would only be there IF the door was where you said it was...
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Roger Gerber
Posts: 327
Since: 3/17/2008
| 3/28/2008 8:16:56 PM
quote:
hahahahahahahahaha, that's no fair, I'm gettin old.
Ok, if there was a door, it would be at the top of the A-- set walls.
Ok?
If there were no door on that wall, what would be the problem with that diagram?
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/28/2008 8:18:07 PM
quote:
See Jim, the issue would only be there IF the door was where you said it was...
Do you really think that? If so, you don't understand, but then you aren't a carpet installer. Why didn't any other installer point this out?
How could CRI teach so much ignorance?
Yes, I thought a door was there, but it wasn't and I laughed at myself and admitted it, but the issue still stands.
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David Kern
Posts: 518
Since: 2/20/2008
| 3/28/2008 8:21:49 PM
quote:
Do you really think that? If so, you don't understand, but then you aren't a carpet installer. Why didn't any other installer point this out?
How could CRI teach so much ignorance?
Yes, I thought a door was there, but it wasn't and I laughed at myself and admitted it, but the issue still stands.
Your argument has little merit now, Jim. If you stay the course, it's obvious the issue is with CRI and not the diagram.
Humility is a priceless quality.
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