| Author | Message |
Jim Ryan 
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
|  3/2/2008 8:12:01 AM
quote:
I thought I had given an answer. Do you want to know at the exact same time or in the same movment?
If it is at the exact same time it could be 3 things if it is all in the same movment it could be up to around 7 things.1-move the iron 2- check to see if the glue has melted to the right temp. 3-kick to line up pattern or seam edge if there is a side wiggle 4- make sure backing is tight and level 5- keep pile open as your putting backing together 6- roll seam to make sure glue has gotten into the picks of the backing 7-move seam weight up onto seam 8 start all over again.
FD
I have been saving the answer for the meetingbut what heck, they don't really need me to run my mouth.
Before I answer, tell us, do you use a grooved iron or a flat iron and why? I hope this will help you to answer before I must. You've shown exceptional memory skills. We could all use more.
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 3/2/2008 9:02:33 AM
If hole in the peak- Buster is bigger than the hole in a latex bottle more comes out.
( You guys make it sound like you gob it on the seam edge. It takes very little to fill & coat the seam edge. I seal as fast as I can walk backwards. I'm a puller not a pusher.
It works.)
(Hot glue does not push fibers down. That is something you would have to do.) If your getting stuck fibers, you have a gap or, your using way too much thermoplastic on the edge!!!! Or you install some very cheap carpet with a really wide row gauge, and not much twist in the fibe
We all know hot glue expands. If there is no gaps where does glue go? I ‘m thinking up. It can't go down or side to side. Even a little glue and you roll it down or put weight on it. Will this have some effect on the out come?
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/2/2008 9:20:26 AM
quote:
If hole in the peak- Buster is bigger than the hole in a latex bottle more comes out.
( You guys make it sound like you gob it on the seam edge. It takes very little to fill & coat the seam edge. I seal as fast as I can walk backwards. I'm a puller not a pusher.
It works.)
(Hot glue does not push fibers down. That is something you would have to do.) If your getting stuck fibers, you have a gap or, your using way too much thermoplastic on the edge!!!! Or you install some very cheap carpet with a really wide row gauge, and not much twist in the fibe
We all know hot glue expands. If there is no gaps where does glue go? I ‘m thinking up. It can't go down or side to side. Even a little glue and you roll it down or put weight on it. Will this have some effect on the out come?
I'm curious, can you prove that glue expands? I know it can get hot and runny, but I didn't know it expanded.
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 3/2/2008 9:52:45 AM
May I should have said reshapes from a round stick to melted mess and dried in a different shape just for you.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/2/2008 8:11:35 PM
quote:
After latexing your seam edge with acrylic latex seam sealer and you let it dry for how long? All day, an hour, 10 minutes???
No matter how long you let it dry, what does the handle of your seam iron look like after the edges ride on it, while constructing thwe seam?? It has globs of seam sealer, on it.
Tell me that won't do exactly what your saying hot melt will always do.
That's just it, both can do it and at any moment, tyo any installer. When the heat melts even some of the glue and if it catches some of the nap as it rubs against the neck of the iron, we have a drawdown and have to make the whole seam all over again.
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 3/4/2008 9:35:14 PM
So after all we know about seam sealing. Is the installer still the bad guy for doing the near impossible? I vote no.
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/4/2008 9:49:48 PM
quote:
So after all we know about seam sealing. Is the installer still the bad guy for doing the near impossible? I vote no.
Can you clean the iron once in awhile?
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/4/2008 10:17:47 PM
quote:
Can you clean the iron once in awhile?
I clean my iron after each and every seam, but you can't clean it all off and even if youy did, the sealer or flue sticks applied to the seam and then heated with an iron can and will still create pull-downs, once the installer goes to make the seam and the carpet remelts the seam glue when seaming.
No, not all the time, but as an installer, how many times would you want to remake a seam over again? Consider, if an installer seals every seam for his lifetime, how many times is he going to remake seams maybe only 3 to 5 feet long and then maybe, 90 feet long?
I don't like saying these things, but I have experienced them first hand, as well as black lines I had to fix. You can tell installers all day long what you want them to do, but sooner or later, reality sets-in for every installer. Then all you have are ex installers that claim they do it every time, causing the newbees a great amount of consternation.
While I guarantee everything I do for 5 years and I have no complaints, it would seem that there may be alternatives,---BUT, EVERY SINGLE TINY DETAIL MUST BE OBSERVED AND IF YOU'RE DOING ANYTHING ELSE BUT GIVING YOUR SEAM 100% OF YOUR CONCENTRATION AND KNOW EXACTLY what to do, you DON'T--DON'T--DON'T---have a chance to do your seams justice.
The people trying to teach the installers seem to consider one way and only one way. While the technique is sound, there are the possibilities for way too many flaws, every single time they make a seam.
Installers should be taught when they must do certain things thru all phases of the installation and when they don't have to. Otherwise, you have a bunch of people repeating after you, but none of them actually doing it on all their seams and maybe none of them.
Here is a hint that not one installer on any board has given and they sure haven't spoken of this in detail,---out-right.
For every single thing you do, pay close attention. If you do, you will be rewarded with new knowledge that is imperative, but if you don't, you may never know.
Last Edited 3/4/2008
10:49:55 PM
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 3/4/2008 10:46:41 PM
quote:
Can you clean the iron once in awhile? %QUOTECLOSEHi
Mr. Darrah,
I always keep my iron clean and the handle silicone. I also switch the light on my iron to a black light. I also have the option of time on my side where most do not. Why do I care some has to.
%
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/4/2008 10:58:01 PM
quote:
quote:
Can you clean the iron once in awhile? %QUOTECLOSEHi
Mr. Darrah,
I always keep my iron clean and the handle silicone. I also switch the light on my iron to a black light. I also have the option of time on my side where most do not. Why do I care some has to.
%
I don't like saying this, but none of the installers has time on his side. Time is the enemy, when we know exactly what we are looking for.
Do a seam and only a seam. Pay super close attention to every detail and then tell us why time is the enemy. Not one installer has ever spoken of it. I am trying to give ya'll the chance to say it first.
ALL-RIGHT, IF YOU CAN'T GET IT WITH THIS CLUE, let's just say you ain't no Einstein.
YOUR SEAMING IRON is the clue. Flat or grooved? No one has ever mentioned this, so quit thinking inside the box.
Last Edited 3/4/2008
11:03:20 PM
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 3/4/2008 11:12:05 PM
Jim,
I just don't get you.I'm sorry but I don't.
Last Edited 3/6/2008
8:39:37 PM
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Roland Thompson
Posts: 281
Since: 2/27/2008
| 3/4/2008 11:25:09 PM
Jim, I have not had the time to be on but to answer you on the type of seaming iron I use I will try and give a short answer. When I first started out there was only the flat bottom one then came many diffrent bottoms I tryed the grove then tryed the deep center groved one then went back to the flate one because I felt if spread the glue out more evenly. Then I went to the one that had grves in the front and chaneled it back to where it was flat for the last half, that still gave me the even flow I wanted. I have been using a new one that came out on the market two years ago made by tGary Good rich out of Cal. it has two thermostates one in the front and one in the back that melts the glue more even then any one I have seen. Short of it is you want a nice even melt so the glue gets into the picks of the backing evenly.
I also use the sinch I figure it can not do any more then all the hot melt I inhaled for all these years along with all the V.A.T. I have sanded.
FD
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/4/2008 11:34:07 PM
I have used a grooved iron for quite a few years nbow and I just recently bought a brand new grooved iron, the one with the strongest blue handle. but I would trade it in a heartbeat for a flat iron.
Anyone want to trade?
Here is the reason. Most installers believe they have time when making a seam, while others are in a terrible hurry. There are drawbacks in both and the drawbacks should be easily recognizable.
So, in reference to tioming and a flat iron, what and why are the reasons. Floor doc got a portion, but that's all.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/4/2008 11:41:42 PM
So tell me, so we don't waste time, do any of you want time to try and figure this out--or do you just want me to tell you?
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 3/4/2008 11:43:31 PM
I need time
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Ray Darrah
Posts: 1411
Since: 2/18/2008
| 3/5/2008 5:31:40 AM
I don't remember latex building up on the side of my iron to any degree.
Are you guys talking about Latex build up or Thermoplastic build up?
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/5/2008 7:36:44 AM
quote:
I don't remember latex building up on the side of my iron to any degree.
Are you guys talking about Latex build up or Thermoplastic build up?
Installers don't have time on their side when seaming, why?
The hint is grooved or flat iron and what has no leader--teacher or installer, spoken of?
Make a seam or several and look very closely at every detail.
Maybe you and another person should team-up, one making the seam and the other watching. You could just make a seam and you could use the peak buster--seam board and all the goodies.
Just remember the basics and find many installers weaknesses.
Tax Man, let me know when you have enough time.
The biggest hint of all is---at the end of a seam, you might do as some installers, which is to twist the handle of the iron to raise the front of the iron, while pushing the back of the iron down,--so as to get the iron out of the seam.
Other guys put their finger on the corner of the seam tape at the tackstrip and lift the iron out.
What do you see when you do that?
Do you use a flat iron or a grooved iron. I haven't owned a flat iron in I guess 30 years.
Read Floor Docs post--addressing my question. he touches the problem, but not in a significant way, so that installers will realize what can and does happen to quite a few of them.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/5/2008 8:31:28 AM
I didn't realize something. You guys might not be able to see what I'm seeing, although I just can't be sure. It would have to be tested--side by side,--to see if it is very noticable, as it is with my RED GLUE--SEAM TAPE.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/5/2008 1:01:02 PM
If installers use hot melt for sealing the edges, as the carpet is drawn around the neck of a hot iron, some of the hot glue will rub off on the neck of the iron.
As the front of a hot iron comes in contact with the carpet, the carpet and the glue heat-up and depending on how fast you move your iron, depends on how much glue on the edge will remelt and rub on the neck of the iron. That glue film can and will catch on some nap from time to time and drag that nap down into the seam, creating a show.
Even if men are as careful as they can be every minute, when we consider all the seams we have to do, ya'll gotta know that many are not going to comply. Sometimes it's not needed and I think it is very important to teach men when those times are, because it not only saves them a time consuming step sometimes--it's not necessary sometimes, there will be no chance of a black line and you'd be giving men reason to think, be thankful and observe.
What's that saying, ---it's my way or the highway.
Most subcontractors are such, because they don't want to do it your way or the highway. They want to have choices--as men that don't like being told what to do in the first place.
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Jim Ryan
Posts: 958
Since: 1/12/2008
| 3/5/2008 1:36:06 PM
quote:
Jim, Why would you NOT want to seam seal the edge of a tufted carpet, other then to save time and cut that important corner??
Serious, educate us. I beg you.
I never need to be begged, simply use common courtesy and respect for me and I will give it back.
SOME tufted carpets simply don't need sealing, if the carpet is seamed correctly.
We have another thread going on this issue and Tax Man asked for more time to see if he can figure out what I'm talking about--with my hints.
Now most men don't think the same way or see the same things, so it's not likely anyone else can understand what I'm hinting at. However, it is worth the try to get men to think about all that's there, before the answer comes, so when the answer comes, they can compare how they looked at the situation before they knew the answer and then how they view it after they have the answer. I have the advantage of seam tape that almost no one else has--except for Michael--on the fiboard as well as any of the installers in Jacksonville Florida, doing business with the same supplier that I do.
I believe that one supply house in Jax--the owner, buys others supplies from businesses, that are going out of business, totally.
The heat tape,--Red Hot one and Red Hot two, were not selling, because other tape manufacturers said the color of the glue would bleed through the carpet. A lot of retailers bought into it, but it was all a lie. The red glue never once bled through and I've used it for several years now. I used it at first, because the scrim was tight, the glue was thick in the best areas--which ment the maker considered the glue lay-out well and I kept using it, because it held like a bear.
As soon as Tax Man is through testing, I'll give the answer, if he doesn't---at least the one I see. Other installers thinking differently, need only show reason as to differences--if they see or can reveal such--refuting what I claim. That's a good thing--IF cause and common sense, meet for the right reasons in the correct manner.
Last Edited 3/5/2008
1:42:52 PM
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