| Author | Message |
floorbizforum 
Posts: 99
Since: 2/20/2008
|  8/15/2008 7:53:02 PM 
Everyone please give a warm welcome to Ron Smith.
Ron is with Wagner Electronics, the world leader in moisture measurement technology for 40 years.
http://www.wwwagner.com/
Last Edited 8/15/2008
7:54:10 PM
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Stephen Perrera
Posts: 823
Since: 5/27/2008
| 8/15/2008 10:03:03 PM
Welcome Ron!
I am sure you can enlighten us all on moisture testing issues that people have. Nice to have someone that can give us insight from a manufactures perspective.
Stephen
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Roland Thompson
Posts: 281
Since: 2/27/2008
| 8/16/2008 12:22:39 AM
Welcome Ron looking forward to your input.
FD
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Nick Arrera
Posts: 35
Since: 7/20/2008
| 8/16/2008 6:24:44 AM
Welcome Ron .. I have a question for you to get you started .. How does one get a accurate MC of Bamboo when there is no calibration for it on the meters ?
Nick ..
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Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 8/16/2008 11:37:10 PM
first Nick, lets make sure we all know it is a weed, or grass, I like
weed better,
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Darian Brown
Posts: 712
Since: 2/5/2008
| 8/17/2008 9:04:35 PM
Welcome Ron
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John Draper
Posts: 76
Since: 10/29/2007
| 8/19/2008 6:54:48 PM
Did I see you in Orlando in May at the show
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Stephen Perrera
Posts: 823
Since: 5/27/2008
| 8/19/2008 9:32:15 PM
I guess Ron is a little busy right now.
But if I may submit a suggestion about the bamboo. From what I know about meters is that none of them will read wood the same. So, the best thing to do is call your meter manufacturer and ask them what the number is for the species correction chart as I have yet to hear of any meter having a preset species for bamboo on their meter.
Just today for instance the GC walked in with his Ligno meter and species correction chart.I was impressed!
He told me he had a meter that cost a grand. We were checking some engineered wood which was a mahogany species from brazil....his correction chart did not have that exact species. Mine did. There are over ten species of mahogany out there and his only had four. His read 8, mine read 10.
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Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 8/19/2008 9:46:16 PM
and, what exactly are your reading with engineered?
if I tell you, you will not learn, got to figure it out!
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Ron Smith
Posts: 10
Since: 8/20/2008
| 8/20/2008 2:16:53 PM
Nick,
Apologize for the delay, but it is very likely that I will not be at the forum site routinely, nonetheless, Wagner will have a way of monitoring this and providing resources for you.
About bamboo, Stephen's response was pretty good. The biggest issue that all of the moisture meter manufacturers have had is trying to keep up with all of the new wood flooring products coming out. All of the meters were originally designed for solid wood products (mainly lumber). We all got involved with flooring over time (again, solid wood mostly), annd then have tried to run to keep up with composites, bamboo, etc. With non-pin meters (at least Wagner) the 'average' density of a species is what is listed as the correct setting. With pin-type meters, other factors influence the level of accuracy and the necessary meter setting. The accuracy of wood moisture meters ultimately gets compared to an ASTM oven-dry test method when such testing is desired for lab studies or just general knowledge, but again, we are mostly talking about solid wood, not composites. With composites (laminates, etc.) with Wagner technology, you are reading the full thickness of the product which consists of some veneer layer along with other components. The higher the percentage of a particular species of wood that is part of the product, the more theoretically valid the species setting that you are using. In short, a composite product is like a different species in a way.
Bamboo is another animal altogether. It is a grass (or weed) and we have seen that the density varies widely probably depending on where it is grown. Every manufacturer of every type of moisture meter has to deal with some type of variability. There actually is a way to determine the density of a product without going through an ovendry procedure. If you are using a Wagner meter, I recommend you contact our Tech Service Department for the immersion (or submersion) procedure.
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Ron Smith
Posts: 10
Since: 8/20/2008
| 8/20/2008 2:28:59 PM
quote:
Did I see you in Orlando in May at the show
John,
I was not in Orlando, but maybe we met at Surfaces?
I wish to thank you and all of the others for the gracious welcome. Wagner and I are very committed to providing the most objective information possible. We certainly believe in our technology and products, but we know that we must serve the industry with credible information, and do what we need to do to make sure we improve when necessary. Thanks to all.
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Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 8/20/2008 9:41:29 PM
If we say nice things about you and your company, do we get free
meters? 
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Roger Gerber
Posts: 327
Since: 3/17/2008
| 8/20/2008 11:29:12 PM
Selva, you mooch!
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Stephen Perrera
Posts: 823
Since: 5/27/2008
| 8/20/2008 11:38:20 PM
That was interesting Ron, thanks!
Sounds like I might need to trade in my Tramex meter for a Wagner to get the skinny on this bamboo thing. 
Lee, I was going to answer your question above but looks like Ron beat me to it. ha ha I was going to say....your measuring plywood. Is that close?
Last Edited 8/20/2008
11:45:00 PM
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Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 8/22/2008 12:47:07 AM
I have more meters than I need,
but, I still could use a gloss meter and a film thickness meter,
only will cost you guys around ten grand,,,
tell you want, why don't you guys have an internet bake sale and
buy me one?
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Ron Smith
Posts: 10
Since: 8/20/2008
| 8/22/2008 12:06:08 PM
No fault in trying! I will say nice things about your company; how's that?
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Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 8/22/2008 8:10:10 PM
well, ok,
how about, you put my ugly face holding a meter? you can say you
guys are so good, you are confident even a bad dude and ugly like
me can't stop people from buying your meters!
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Stephen Perrera
Posts: 823
Since: 5/27/2008
| 8/22/2008 8:34:22 PM
Ron, be careful of Lee, he is slippery slope and one of those old old old original inspectors from the 80's...or is that 60's?
If you answer any of his questions never never never give him an absolute answer. He is just trying to find out how much you really know.
How do I know this? He calls me practically every other day asking questions, and more quesions and I know he knows dang near everything. You have to side track him and start asking him about beer, Just the mear mention of beer will throw him off track.
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Roger Gerber
Posts: 327
Since: 3/17/2008
| 8/22/2008 9:56:13 PM
He goes absolutely bananas if you ask him about organic veggies.
Or tell him his Momma was asking about his health!
Just don't threaten his cats. He WILL come and whup ya!
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Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 634
Since: 5/25/2008
| 8/22/2008 10:24:40 PM
you talking about my cats again, you have been warned
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